ПОСТУПОК САРЫ ПЭЙЛИН. Ваше мнение?

[Олег Сах]

Мы были в дороге когда г-жа Пэйлин отказалась от своего поста. Через неделю, по возвращении, другие новости затмили её поступок. Как республиканец, я возмущен. Своим поступком она доказала правоту всех дурацких шуточек и уколов. Но это мое личное мнение. Что вы считаете:
1. Действительно, "хоккейная мамаша", пролезшая в губернаторы, и похерившая свои обязанности, when going got tough ?
2. Независимый политик, не устоявший перед сокрушающей силой СМИ, набравшихся необыкновенной мощи во время романа с Обамой?

[Wagner]

not sound like a conspiracy theorist but i will go with option 3)
a political move todistanceher from the2008 election, move her away from the current republican party and to re-introduce her in time for the 2012 election as something completely new, pehaps an independent or something

[Alex]

Я плакалЪ когда узнал.
Хочется всерить что она не убила свою политическую карьеру. Если она думает что заработает много денег читая лекции в универах то это да, но не надолго. А потом что? Back to snow machines?

[Олег Сах]

Рената, если она думает что у неё есть какие либы шансы среди независимых, то она действительно тупой клон Тины Фэй.
Алексей, да, на чистку кеты в сезон отправится. Будет штопать сети и рассказывать мексиканцам с эскимосами какая с ней штука приключилась в восьмом году.

[Wagner]

oleg, i was using independents as an example not an actual suggestion. I have a feeling that this is not her desicion, but that she is somehowbeing used by the republicans to help in the 2012 election. Frankly, i am do not know, or care, how

I am sick of all those long term plans, carefully dropped hints, 3-year ahead moves, etc that all candidates practice.

[Robert Lyyd]

Своим поступком она доказала правоту всех дурацких шуточек и уколов.

There is nothing NOTHING she could have done including murdering someone to justify everything that was said to offend her. Enough is enough, she is a mother and a wife before she is a governor, so when these assholes pathetic lowlives started taking shots at her kids, it was time for her to step down.

[Славик Саж]

Моя первая реакция тоже была что есть пункт 3, но не знаю как скоро ей забудут то что она не "отмотала свой срок" на Аляске.
Вполне возможно что политика и выборы 2012 года её больше не интересуют или поняла что в 12-ом Обаму переизберут и решила чем на $160 тыс. в год губернаторскую зарплату жить лучше cash in сейчас.

[Борис Кага]

Думаю что Сара возвратиться к политике и возможно в 2012 году будет избрана.Обама всего лиш полгода у власти, а дров уже наломал-денег растратил невидимо.Разрушил Хомме ЛандСекюрити.Да хранит нас бог от теракта.Экспиремент выбор политического лидера по цвету кожи уже имел место в НьюЙорке,когда выбрали Давида Динкинса-единственная квалификация которого была-первый чёрный мэр. Худшего мэра не было до него и наверное не будет. Думаю Обама -яление временное.

[Славик Саж]

То что Сара ушла с поста посередине срока будет над ней висеть как Дамоклов меч

[Натан Мэвэ]

"So what's next on her agenda? A "tasteful" layout in Playboy, perhaps?"
This is precisely the kind of comments that in part can be attributed to her bailing out. I personally would have preferred her sticking out for another year and a half in the gubernatorial chair.
But I can also sympathize with her decision because of constant frivolous, partisan attacks. Don't forget $500K she is already in the hole for - just to defend herself. These are no Kennedys or Rockfellers (both US Senators) that have substantial financial resources. Whatever else you may think of Sara Pailin, her family is what we call "plain folk".

[Натан Мэвэ]

So when opportunity presented itself to make some money to pay her bills and take care of her family, she jumped at it. Look in the mirror and honestly ask your self - what would you do in this situation.
Still, there are a lot of people (especially in those "fly-over" states) who support and root for her. We'll see what 2012 brings. I would count her out. Not yet.

[Лина]

Since when do "plain folk" make $160+(I'm not sure what her husband earns)/year and get to live in a mansion rent free?

[Славик Саж]

She is a "plain folk" indeed, and $160K is not that much for her size family
This is precisely the kind of comments that in part can be attributed to her bailing out.
EXACTLY

[Лина]

Slavik, her and her family's room, board, and health care were fully covered... additionally, her husband was bringing home at least another $100k - let's not insult the real "plain folk"...
.
As for "precisely the kind of comments"... she didn't get any more than many of the other high-profile politicians out there.

[Натан Мэвэ]

"Since when do "plain folk" make $160+..."
Her parents are both teachers, of very modest means, without big bank accounts - certainly can be considered an average American family. Her own family is clearly of modest means (even with $160K salary + whatever her husband makes). After your put away some of it for your kids and grand kids (6 in all so far) and pay some of it in taxes, mortgage, etc, Pailins can also be considered only an upper-middle class.
Certainly there is no 500K laying around to pay all of the attorney fees. In my book it is "plain folk", which by the way, is not only measured in how much one makes.
But never mind that. Instead, maybe you should consider apologizing and taking back your obnoxious earlier comment about Playboy. How about it?

[Лина]

You think Bill and Hillary didn't get their share, what about GW, or Ronald Reagan?

[Славик Саж]

As presidential candidates? Before they were even elected?
And she wasn't even a presidential candidate

[Натан Мэвэ]

Lina, do not change the issue. Never mind, who got more insulted by whom, why and how. Comment about Playboy was YOUR comment - take ownership of it. This was absolutely uncalled for, regardless of who said what about whom.

[Славик Саж]

Natan, call Michelle Obama a monkey and see Lina's reaction. Liberal hypocrisy, double standards, two-facedness

[Khramaya]

how come Lina's comments about Palin are obnoxious and racial innuendo about Obama is OK?
before labeling something EVERYBODY should think about their own comments addressing people and politicians they don't support and try- maybe only try- not to use double standards.
if you yourself use demeaning comments -don't demand from others to be "politically correct". Only if you yourself remain very polite to all camps, you can ask this from others.
Otherwise it's hypocrisy.
As Seinfeld would say, not that there is anything wrong with that:-D .
There is nobody out there who is hypocrisy -free.
But sometimes it's good to look in the mirror.;-)

[Лина]

What mortgage??? They were living in the Governor's Mansion... and can someone enlighten me about the cost of real estate and the averagehousehold income in Alaska?
.
I have no intenion of apologizing for a joke made by a woman about another woman - evenif all the racist comments that have been written in this forum were to beretracted.And whom exactly should I be apologizing to - does Sarah read this forum or do you personally have something against Playboy?

[Натан Мэвэ]

Julia,
I can not speak for others who may or may not have used racial or otherwise insensitive remarks about the President or anyone else. I can only speak for MYSELF. And form opinion about others based on their comments. Forming an opinion about Lina was not very difficult - based on her insensitive comments...

[Лина]

Natan, please don't compare a comment that might be construed as objectifying (though that would be a stretch, since it was made by another woman), to obviously hateful racist slurs. Perhaps I should start apologizing for every Jewish joke I've ever told?

[Натан Мэвэ]

"since it was made by another woman..." -- No need to hide behind your gender. An "N" word is no less insulting when uttered by a black person....
And by the way, those, who used "hateful, racist slurs" should apologize as well...

[Лина]

I'm not hiding behind anuything, please stop making something out of nothing. And if you can compare a harmless joke to someone (a white person in particular) using the N word or referring to Michelle Obama as a monkey, then I reallysee nopoint in discussing this matter any further - we obviously have a very different sense of humor.

[Светлана Гэмм]

Guys, it's a waste of time - liberals wil never get it, their hate is so much stronger (dunno why hate though, she realy didn't do anything in her life or politica career to be hated for) than just admitting it's wrong and inappropriate.
I've personally spent months defending Palin. If didn't like the woman, I could've charged big bucks for it. :-D All they do is attacking her personally, going through her dirty laundry (which is not even there), not one discussion about her politics.
On her future - I personaly think it's on hold for now. She is still very young and can do a lot of different things (run for senator, etc.). I don't think she is ready for presidency in 2012 (since she hasn't even finished her only government term). Whatever she decides to do, I wish her best of luck - she and her family has gone through a lot last year starting from the birth of her youngest baby.

[Лина]

If you see hatred in that remark, then so be it - since any attemtat disputing it, would most likelyprove to bean exercise in futility.

[Славик Саж]

Juila, I agree with you. I would chuckle at the playboy comment if it would come out of almost anybody but Lina. I remember very well how a few month ago someone referred to Michele as monkey and Lina flipped making us a bunch of racist.

[Олег Сах]

Svetlana, I found myself in the same position, defending her, suspecting an evil media plot to destroy the only viable Republican outhere, however, what do you think of her decision ?
$500 K is a funny argument, since we all know that politicians can go to any kind of debt, because we know that they will make it back on the first book deal. Look at the Clintons. If there ever was an excuse for a sake of an excuse, this is it.

[Лина]

Slavik, calling a black person a monkey, is inexusable, regardless of who does it, the same holds true for holocaust humor... certain lines just shouldn't be crossed.But saying that you might have found the joke amusinghad it beentold by someone else, only supports my point that there is nothing wrong with the joke itself, just like there is nothing wrong with making fun and even exaggerating (if that'sat allpossible) Bill's philandering and even "Bubba" humor.
.
P.S.
It was a lot more than just one person calling her a monkey...

[Khramaya]

actually, as I think more about it - if somebody in any context commented about me having a spread in Playboy - hey, I would take take it as a major complement;-) . Palin ( if you get abstracted from what she says and how she acts) - is HOT, hot, hot!!!! Can't deny her obvious assets - so, really, why not???? There is nothing demeaning about it.

[Mike]

Palin can make millions of $ in speaking engagement.. ( i think i read something like 50k/appearance ).
I never viewed Palin as a "serious" politician, McCain just used her as an asset to offset his own centrist position to appeal to religious rights.
I hope she does well in whatever private business she decides to go into.

[Лина]

the only viable Republican outhere
.
Really? Because McCain had a better chance of getting my vote without her on the ticket.

[Олег Сах]

McCain believed Republican pundits too much. I remember reading that picking unknown from Alaska will carry him into the White House back in June of 2008. It all came down to this "Woman/Black/Woman/Jew in the White House!!!!!!" that started with Joe Lieberman.
To answer Lina T.'s relentless, unstoppable, unbearble fight with racism in our concealed coffers, do you know why some people were remembering ugly idiotic stamps of yesteryear racism? Because it was strange and super racist how someone's race will carry one into the White House. They spoke out of frustration.

[Олег Сах]

Really? Because McCain had a better chance of getting my vote without her on the ticket.
Really??? Any Republican had as much chance of getting your vote, as I had chances of being asked on the date by Cindy Crawford back in 1992.

[Олег Сах]

Я хотел написать: "...chances of her asking me for a date, and me turning her down" *но потом подумал что первая версия достаточно выражает малую вероятность лининого перехода в республиканцы.

[Khramaya]

IMO in the last election Palin represented exactly the brand of conservatism that causes seizures in independents and progressives - socially conservative religion driven narrow minded agenda. Give me an open minded fiscal conservative - Teddy Roosevelt style, please - I'll vote for him.

[Лина]

do you know why some people were remembering ugly idiotic stamps of yesteryear racism? Because it was strange and super racist how someone's race will carry one into the White House. They spoke out of frustration.
.
And here I was under some misguidedimpression that most Soviet immigrants just tend to harbor racist sentiments.
.
Obama's race had absolutely nothing to do with him getting my and millions of othervotes... and you arejust asmistaken if you think that I would never vote Republican - to me it's all about the candidate and the issues.

[Wagner]

Obama's race had absolutely nothing to do with him getting my and millions of othervotes...

Thanks, Lina, I needed a good laugh...

[Светлана Гэмм]

On her decision to resign - I don't think she ever used 500K as an excuse to resign - just to describe how painful all this political witchhunt has affected her personally. I think her decision was mainy affected by two factors 1) Her family/kids (and everyone who goes through such horribe attacks should put their family first, not everyone does though), 2) Her lame duck status as a governor - she's been unable to perform her job because she had to respond to all this friviolous complaints. I wish she didn't have to resign - she's been an excellent governor, but I respect her decision-family comes first.
However, she totally is a serious politician, or can become even a more serious one :-) if she chooses to. About her views being not mainstream - liberals have to stop reading liberal pubications only. The largest poitical group in US are conservatives 40%,and only 21% liberals.
***********.gallup.com/poll/120857/conservatives-single-largest-ideological-group.aspx

[Салмаксова]

Things that could happen to anyone:
give birth to a child with a Down syndrome
Your teenage daughter gets pregnant
Marry a STUD or a BABE
Things that happened that are probably exclusive to Sara Palin:
look this good after five kids (good enough for Playboy, yes)
look this good after the media dragged her through Inferno
know how to field dress a boar in high heels
have every disgusting unsubstantiated lie slapped onto her image as a politician and a parent
have no time to run the state because of frivolous complaint orgy
believe in the American people and genuinely want to work for them even though they seem to be less capable of processing an independent thought than ever before

[Васюкова]

Сара Пэйлин вызывает ненависть не только у либералов, но и у людей с заниженной самооценкой. Хороша она - красива, умна, порядочна, благородна. Семья - загляденье. Да и во власти не новичок. Жаль, Маккейн не дорос до нее...
А на другой стороне - нарцисс и демагог обама и дурак ммм... как его... неважно, история его все равно забудет.
За Сару Пэйлин буду голосовать двумя руками, если выдвинется. Редкая в политике, цельная личность.

[Васюкова]

Да, по поводу имиджа. Какой контраст с самовлюбленной и ошалевшей от власти, отвратительной, безвкусной и злой Мишель Обама!Либ пресса с катушек съехала, называя ее привлекательной.

[Лина]

look this good after five kids (good enough for Playboy, yes)
look this good after the media dragged her through Inferno
know how to field dress a boar in high heels
.
What else could one possibly ask for in a vice president?

[Салмаксова]

Sara Palin would have made a memorable VP. She was very clear about her domestic and foreign agenda. Her foreign policy was aggressive against our enemies and unifying towards our allies. But all the media told us was some bullshit about Russia that she didn't even say.
And the feminist liberals didn't want her big time. They want a woman, just not this kind of woman. They want THEIR kind. The same way the other activists wanted THEIR kind of black, not Condi or Colin. And they got their boy.

[Салмаксова]

Thank you, Valentina,
I find Michelle physically threatening. She's evil and ill equipped (socially) to represent our country. Any other first lady would have been hung for the things this one does and says. She doesn't even have to say anything. She looks so mean, she makes Hillary look like the fairy Godmother.

[Лина]

I would have taken Condoleeza over Palin in a heartbeat. And as for Palin's agenda, she could barelymemorize what was written for her, let alone have any sort offoreign or domestic policyof her own.

[Марат Гэм]

Олег!Я честно говоря не думаю,что Сара Пэйлин своим поступком доказала правоту всех дурацких шуточек и уколов.Да она отказалась от своего поста.Ну и что?Я не думаю,что это станет препятствием,если вдруг она захочет балатироваться в президенты в будущем.Леваки ее очень сильно боятся,потому и поливают нечистотами.Никогда не забуду противную рожу Майкла Мура,который кричал,что Пэйлин*Экстремистка!*Очень верю словам Джулианни,что Сара- будущее Америки.И вся эта левая шушера может,биться головой об стенку.-пришло время *"хоккейной мамаши"(Y)

[Лина]

порядочна, благородна
.
Vi ee lichno znaete? Ya yzhe promolchy o "Семья - загляденье" - could happen to anyone -still seems somewhat hypocritical.

[Лина]

нарцисс и демагог обама и дурак ммм...
Какой контраст с самовлюбленной и ошалевшей от власти, отвратительной, безвкусной и злой Мишель Обама
She's evil and ill equipped (socially)
She looks so mean
И вся эта левая шушера может,биться головой об стенку.
liberals wil never get it, their hate is so much stronger (dunno why hate though, she realy didn't do anything in her life or politica career to be hated for) than just admitting it's wrong and inappropriate.
.
Wow, Svetlana was right, so much hatred from the liberals... and this thread wasn't even about them or the Obamas. Can someone please look up psychological projection.

[Ольга Имь]

Lina is back....:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D
Don't you want to tell us again how good was your childhood in Soviet Union?

[Дунская]

ok..i;ve argued with Lina before - really no point.. sorry..
Regarding Michelle - she is just scary! And what i hate the most is news about her, her style... her blah blah blah.. makes me sick..
Pictures of her in Russia - was soo funny, she looked like a giant .....in comparison to the rest of the people. And of course - her super duper style - Jcrew after all - is impeccable! Oh well, lets hope its only for 3 more years and she does not embarss us much more.. IMHO!

[Лина]

Marina, I'm not even sure who you are, nor am I really arguing anything... BTW, did you happen to read the question in thetitle of the thread?In any case,thank you for supporting the point made inmy previous post. (Y)

[Олег Сах]

Марат, Оля, Света, Валя...может кого и забыл.
В моем безмятежном, светлом расистском детстве существовала фраза: "Лозунг ковбоя - поднял ружье, убей !"
Избрали в губернаторы - губернируй! Govern!!!! Нет оправданий уходу с поста. Когда Обама начал оправдываться перед Ираном, Джон Болен, бушевский представитель в ООН, сказал: "- Он только что доказал им, что они делали все правильно последние 8 лет "
Сара Пэйлин доказала, что она существо из масс медиа - не политик, не мама, и не, простите за выражение, не баба. Так, водоросль арктическая.
P.S. У Буша надо учиться - голубая кровь, ни ухом не повёл на все ушаты грязи.

[Марат Гэм]

Олег!Вот ты упомянул,очень мною увожаемого Джона Болтона,которого кстати Буш,сдал со всеми потрахами в угоду левой швали.Его вышвырнули из ООН,где он являлся представителем нашей страны,из этой проворовавшейся и недостойной организации.Никаких постов Болтон сегодня не занимает.Но при этом,ему не мешает ни кто,и ни что говорить правду,называть вещи своими именами,быть честным и порядочным человеком.Олег,а насчет того,что избрали в губернаторы - губернируй! поднял ружье, убей-это все очень хорошо звучит,но на мой взгляд,это такие умозрительные заключения и желания выдать желаемое,за действительное.Я что-то не очень сегодня вижу механизма по которому с губернаторского поста можно рубить с плеча,а с не губернаторского нельзя.Поэтому счтаю,что честь политика,мамы и бабы эта достойная женщина не замарала.Извени,но здесь мы с тобой полностью расходимся во мнениях.

[Васюкова]

Лина, Вас ведь задело в моем посте другое, правда?
Не будем искать"psychological projection"?
Увы, образ Пэйлин теперь неотделим от образа Мишели, как свет от тени!И в восприятии обеих человеческая сущность каждого проявляется как никогда. Особенно интересны в этом отношении женщины....

[Олег Сах]

Марат, да, Болтон, не Болен, видимо воспоминание о детстве напело мне имя Дитера Болена из Modern Talking. Расхождение во мнениях - это здорово. Не во всем же соглашаться. Просто будучи жителем Tri-State Area, я уже устал от "убегающих" губернаторов, последний из нашей славной тройки - Спитцер, оставил после себя такую гнилую замену, что на расхлебывание уйдут годы. Лина, я только что оскорбил Паттерсона. Я считаю его кошмарным губернатором. На старт, внимание, марш!

[Светлана Гэмм]

That's nice that you brought up Spitzer - the comparisson is telling. While Palin has resigned to move the state forward regardless what happens to her career, Obama has given up his senate seat not completing his ony term ever (and he knew from the very beginning when he got elected he possibly wouldn't finish his term), Spitzer was such an inspiration, self-procaimed Robin Good fighting the bad fat cats (basically destroying them and the Wall Street) while doing something totaly innocent and legal.
Yes, Palin definitey is the bad girl compared to those Liberal heros, and she can't be taken seriousy for it.

[Олег Сах]

Isn't giving up your senate seat to become a President of the United States of America, different from quitting your job midterm?

[Салмаксова]

Palin Ethics Complaint #19: She's accused of not disclosing the receipt of gifts in a timely manner. The "gifts" referred to in the complaint are the numerous UNopened boxes that the governor has had for months.
She has to put everything on hold to answer this nonsense that abuses the system of transparency. She has to spend a lot of money to defend herself in costly and time consuming hearings that the unopened boxes cannot legally constitute a gift because the recognition of such requires its receipt. Sounds like BULLSHIT? Because it is.
Now, imagine doing this for months. Someone is trying to derail her debate on policy and government, because when she talks, she makes sense. And they are doing a good job drowing her in debt and litigations over the role of the unopened box in a gift giving protocol.
She could no longer govern the state any more than Paterson can. No one in their right mind will allow one piece of legislation from him... Con't

[Светлана Гэмм]

It is - but the result is the same! If the person feels he/she can't govern (keep in mind, it's not a job, but a pubic service), then she acts accordingly for the benefit of her constituents. When she resigns, the lieutenant governor will step up (who has the same agenda as her).
Ann Coulter has predicted this paranoia around Palin right after she resigned. This is a funny article.:-D
***********.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/article.cgi?article=320

[Салмаксова]

The same rules apply to Palin. We don't have rulers. We have stewards of the Constitution. Her role as a governor is gravely undermined by her enemies. And we as New Yorkers should be grateful that our own governor cannot do much as a politician as well.
She has a clear message and a principled, gutsy, folksy agenda. Now, she can get on the road and start talking or she can bury herself in an office unable to run the State because she has to write a long narrative about a STUPID FUCKING BOX.
Thanks for reading. I'm on vacation, but YOU go back to work - millions on welfare depend on you.

[Лина]

"(keep in mind, it's not a job, but a pubic service)"
.
what exactly is the difference?

[Лина]

Thanks for reading. I'm on vacation, but YOU go back to work - millions on welfare depend on you.
.
what they receive pales in comparison to corporate welfare.

[Олег Сах]

Lina, so we don't flood this topic, won't you open a topic about corporate welfare? Educate us. I'd like to know how my tax dollars support those lazy, not working, drug addled, free housing & WIC checks receiving corporate fat cats.

[Лина]

no, I'd rather continue not flooding the topic by discussing the Obamas... and as for corporate welfare -that was certainly money well spent (H)

[Wagner]

Isn't giving up your senate seat to become a President of the United States of America, different from quitting your job midterm?

Not all that different, if you consider that the senate seat was gained as the means for the candidacy and was never planned to be fulfilled in earnest.
Additionally, I feel that if you believe that the public post will benefit from your absence (as in an example when your job is so mired in controversy and media opposition) it is an honorable action ot hand over the post who will better suited to finish the job

[Лина]

honorable and selflessindeed, and has absolutely nothing to do with a rather lucrative book deal, touring the country and giving paid speeches, while sifting through high paying television and radio job offers... why the woman is practically a saint - only thinking of her constituents

[Борис Кага]

This is a free country. Everybody can do whatever they whant to do.Sarah did whatwas good for her.
Shamless Hillary Clinton sneaked into United State Senate -representing New York State were she hasnever lived before and nobody would elect her in Arkansas.Now after bushing Obama in the presidential compain she works for him. You could call her Monica Clinton after that.

[Mike]

Now after bushing Obama

how does one bush Obama? :) Is that a play of words, or does our ex-pres now has a verb named after him? Sorry for flood

[Khramaya]

"gutsy, folksy agenda"
do we need politicians with folksy agenda?
Or do we need serious polticians who give their citizens credit for their intelligence?
I don't need real politicians to be cute, attractive or entertaning.
I need them to have an educated long term VISION that is congruent with democratic principles.
I do not want to be treated like a common redneck, and this is how Palin approaches her audiences.

[Славик Саж]

Maybe we didn't want a real politician. Maybe we wanted someone who feels like "one of us"
Maybe we didn't care how many terms he/she/it served in Senate

[Гера Така]

She is the one who understands - the potential dangers coming from Russia.

She is a real person with real life issues. Not like make belief super hero of our time the G-d sent , blah blah... friend of Biden and the new cheif - O...

[Mike]

i am not sure how to define "a real politician".
when this country was founded they did not have career politicians. They had people selected to represent their town/state.. i am actually not even sure if they were paid for their services.
However, now to be a politician means being a corrupt representative of special interest groups.
Democrats, republicans, who cares?
Do any of your represent your interests? Or some of the interests they really represent incidentally match up with some of yours?
As about Palin.. yeah she is different a bit from most politicians.. She is not that bright, but prolly smarter then 50% of the droolers in senate/congress.
It's entertaining to see what will transpire..

[Светлана Гэмм]

Or do we need serious polticians who give their citizens credit for their intelligence?
Do we have someone like this in our government NOW??
What exactly intelligent has he done since he got elected?? Or ever in his career?? Besides getting himself elected.

I do not want to be treated like a common redneck, and this is how Palin approaches her audiences.
Well, at least she is honest when she speaks, not treating me like a dummy-telling some kinda made up stories about his mom having had to fill out paper work when she was sick-what a horrible experience! Or doctors taking out a kid's tonsils because of the reimbersement. What a phony.

[Светлана Гэмм]

In order to avoid having "career" politicians spending their lives in government (just do your term, accopmplish your agenda on which you got elected, and go home), we need term limits. No more than two terms for a senator, and maybe 3-4 for congressmen. This will end corruption, worrying about being re-elected, etc.

[Mike]

Terms limits would be a beginning, however, aside from that we have to break up the dumb 2 party system..
I don't want to vote for religious freaks or communists.. so i don't vote.. same with most of the country.. most of us don't care to vote because the party lines don't represent us at all.
Make them get elected on narrow issues, have them form coalitions, etc..

[Натан Мэвэ]

So maybe Sarah bailed out early so she can form a new party? We need to shake up this political status-quo and creating a new party would be just the ticket. I certainly would not be surprised if she goes that route. More power to her. Current Republicans for the most part are disappointing, current Democrats - far worse.

[Светлана Гэмм]

I don't want to vote for religious freaks or communist
Sorry, was unable to hold myself from asking :-)
I definetely know who the "communists" are. :-)
But are Palin or Bush "religious freaks"? I mean it would probably never happen that this country will elect someone who openly admits they are atheists.
(Obama was saying he is "Christian", he definitely not).

[Mike]

Svetlana, yes.. they are..
i am not calling for a atheist.. just for a person who does not have to mention god as a driving force for their decision..
So to me Bush & Palin are religious freaks..

[Светлана Гэмм]

just for a person who does not have to mention god as a driving force for their decision..
Question: What do you think Carrie Prejan (miss CA) was saying when she said "sorry, but I was raised to believe that a marriage is between a man and a woman"
Transltion: I was raised Christian, and we, as Christians, believe that a man should be (or marry) with a woman.

[Mike]

i have no idea what this has to do with anything...
i was raised to believe in Дед Мороз, also in a fact that being cold causes me to catch cold, and other such non-sense, then i grew up and had a chance to re-evaluate my beliefs.

[Лина]

What do her Christian values say about posing topless and parading around in a tiny bikini in front of millions of drooling men? Anything in there about hypocrisy and not judging others?

[Robert Lyyd]

Svetlana to add to your post we call religious people like Sarah, Bush or Ms CA freaks BUT fagots like Paris Hilton normal? Isn’t there something totally wrong with that?

[Светлана Гэмм]

i have no idea what this has to do with anything...
i was raised tobelieve in Дед Мороз, also in a fact that being cold causes me to catchcold, and other such non-sense, then i grew up and had a chance tore-evaluate my beliefs
:-) As silly as it may sound to you ;-), but it has to do with a lot of things - people's traditions, holidays (i.e. Christmas, etc), definition of marriage, and other things - it's just their values! It may not be yours, and it should not be the same, but people should not be ashamed of their values or believes.
P.S. you can catch a cold from being in a cold temp - cold temp compromizes your immune system. :-)

[Mike]

it does sound funny to me :) a tradition of defining how other people should live their private lives
on cold, i suggest you actually look at current published research - total offtop.

[Лина]

it's just their values! It may not be yours, and it should not be the same, but people should not be ashamed of their values or believes.
.
So if a grown woman keeps believing in Santa Claus - no shame in that? Can't your statement also be applied to homosexuals, pedophiles, cannibals, polygamists, muslims...? Or is it only the Christiansthat are allowed to have "values".

[Натан Мэвэ]

Although I consider myself a "non-believer" (courtesy of soviet school system upbringing) I have no problem whatsoever with a President (man or woman) who pray and ask for Creator's Providence when making difficult decisions affecting potentially millions of his/her fellow citizens. And who are not ashamed to admit their reliance on God publicly. Washington did it. Lincoln did it. So did Reagan. All great men. And great Presidents.

[Лина]

Like many of the founding fathers, Washingtom was a deist.
"Washington gives us little in his writings to indicate his personal religious beliefs. As noted by Franklin Steiner in "The Religious Beliefs Of Our Presidents" (1936), Washington commented on sermons only twice. In his writings, he never referred to "Jesus Christ." He attended church rarely, and did not take communion
"

[Лина]

"Abraham Lincoln's religious beliefs are a matter of controversy. Lincoln frequently referenced God and quoted the Bible, yet never formally joined any church. He was private about his beliefs and respected the beliefs of others. Since his assassination, many attempts have been made to define his beliefs as either religious or secular. He was said to be an admirer of the deist author Thomas Paine, and it has been reported that he wrote a manuscript essay challenging orthodox Christianity modelled on Paine's book The Age of Reason, which a friend burned to protect him from ridicule"

[Натан Мэвэ]

Mike, I do not confuse a religious fanatic with a God-fearing person. Neither should you.
It is more likely (or at least as likely) for an atheist to "push a button" as a person who believes in "Greater Power".

[Натан Мэвэ]

Lina,
I don't doubt your scholarly ability to scan Internet and Wikipedia for information. The quotes you're siting, however are not contradicting anything I said in the least.
It is one thing to be a deeply religious person, it is quite another to try to impose your believes on others. I have no problem with the first, but do not support the second.

[Лина]

We're way of topic, but...
.
Nabil Shaath says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"
.
Could an athiest get away with saying: the satan made me do it? I'm tired of these religious fanatics using God as a scapegoat.

[Натан Мэвэ]

Actually history tells us that evil men do evil things to their fellow human beings regardless of whether these men are religious zealots or atheists....

[Лина]

Natan, your sarcasm is hilarious - a real knee slapper (fr)
and I'm not ashamed to say that I (L)Google

[Натан Мэвэ]

First of all this is the first time I see something like this being attributed to GWB - I would like to see some corroboration before I take this particular statement at face value.
BTW, an atheist does not believe in a Satan anymore than in God. So you your analogy does not work. Sorry, got to run.

[Mike]

Natan, that i agree with..
History teaches us that smart men ( and women ) exploit sheep to reach their goals. And it's it Zeus, God, Vishnu, Jesus, sacred cow, national unity, they are evil, or whatever else their idea is - largely irrelevant.
As long as sheep buy into the idea of the leader, said leader is able to manipulate them to their own benefit.
Happened for 1000s of years and will not stop any time soon.
Some of us chose not to be sheep, tho..

[Натан Мэвэ]

For those who do not want to be sheep:
Read Mark Levin's latest book "Liberty and Tyranny". Fascinating, excellent read. I got mine on Father's Day. :-D :-D :-D :-D

[Лина]

Natan, I know that atheists (supposedly) don't believe in anything, so they are free to use anything from Satan to their mothers - a scapegoat by any other name...

[Лина]

And along those lines, couldn't a religious phanatic "push the button" and later claim that Satan made him do it - if you believe in one (God), youmost likelybelieve in the other... I'd prefer a president who takes responsibility for his own actions and doesn't see himself as a crusader on a mission from God.

[Мария Кафм]

I'd prefer a president who takes responsibility for his own actions and doesn't see himself as a crusader on a mission from God.



And that would be who?

[Светлана Гэмм]

Mike, why does it bother you so much? No one wants you to be something or believe you don't want to, but you (personally) do find more common sense in politicians who are more religious (i.e conservatives) than in those who are not so much (liberals). :-)
And can you name one American president or a politician throughout American history who was religious and did something crazy because of it?

[Натан Мэвэ]

"And along those lines, couldn't a religious fanatic "push the button" and later claim that Satan made him do it -"
--- Religious fanatic could. But I don't think such a person would be elected President of the United States.

[Mike]

Svetlana, unlike what you would like to believe
conservative != religious
liberal != atheists
I know tons of a-religious conservative and tons of religious liberals.
I have several issues with religious freaks
1) they tend to pass laws that the rest of us have to abide by. Such as anti-abortion laws pre Roe-Wade, also some states had laws to prevent any kind of contraception, other states would forbid oral sex, etc. It's all due to religious retardation by the sheep
2) i need a president to base his decision on a lot more than a consultation with God.
********tinyurl.com/kpkfd8

[Светлана Гэмм]

You didn't answer my question - which president (since you said-Bush and Palin are religious freaks) made decisions after consultation with G-d?
P.S. I know that not ALL conservatives are religious (but most are).Some are just fiscal or foreign policy conservatives. About the laws that come from religion-some still do (i.e. shall not murder, shall not still, etc.). About the laws on sex and contraception-people's values change, the way they practive their religion change, hence they adjust the laws.
I agree with everything Bush said in that clip. Which part do you have a problem with? Or you just generally can't tolerate believing people? :-)

[Лина]

You didn't answer my question - which president (since you said-Bush and Palin are religious freaks) made decisions after consultation with G-d?
.
you're forcing me to repeat myself...
.
Nabil Shaath says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"

[Олег Сах]

Lina, Natan already asked you to validate your source. Please, do so, before you use this quote for a third time.

[Натан Мэвэ]

Lina is not the only one who can make points by quoting Wikipedia:
Shaath served as the Palestinian Authority's first ever foreign minister from April 2003 to February 2005. Shaath made news on 2005-10-07 by commenting for a BBC documentary that in a 2003 meeting with United States President George W. Bush, Bush told him and other Palestinian officials that Bush was "driven with a mission from God."
According to Shaath, the quotation was this:
"God would tell me, George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan. And I did, and then God would tell me, George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq... And I did.
"And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East. And by God I'm gonna do it."

[Натан Мэвэ]

But here is the rest of the info, that Lina conveniently omitted:
Shaath later qualified his comments, saying that he and other world leaders at a Jordan summit two years ago "understood that he was illustrating [in his comments] his strong faith and his belief that this is what God wanted."
Both the White House and Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, who was also present at the meeting, denies that Bush ever made such a statement.
The question is: "Why should we believe one Palestinian leader over the other?"

[Лина]

Actually, this was my source: ***********.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/10_october/06/bush.shtml

.
so I didn't conveniently omit anything.

[Лина]

Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, who attended the meeting in June 2003 too, also appears on the documentary series to recount how Mr Bush told him: "I have a moral and religious obligation. So I will get you a Palestinian state."
.
"President Bush said that God guided him in what he should do, and this guidance led him to go to Afghanistan to rid it of terrorism after 9/11 and led him to Iraq to fight tyranny," he said.
"We understood that he was illustrating [in his comments] his strong faith and his belief that this is what God wanted."
.
********news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4320586.stm

[Натан Мэвэ]

Lina, can you reconcile these two statements:

1. "....Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, who was also present at the meeting, denies that Bush ever made such a statement."

2. "Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, who attended the meeting in June 2003 too, also appears on the documentary series to recount how Mr Bush told him: "I have a moral and religious obligation. So I will get you a Palestinian state."

I can't. Clearly one of the Abbas's is lying

[Лина]

"In July 2004, he stopped to campaign with some Amish folks at Lapp Electric Service in Smoketown, Pa. Just as the meeting ended, Bush, according to Mennonite Weekly Review columnist Jack Brubaker, told the group: "I trust God speaks through me. Without that I couldn't do my job." This also produced White House denials that Bush used those words."
.
Damn those lying Mennonites!:-D
.
also:
"But Bush has said similar things on other occasions," Brubaker noted, citing B ob Woodward's "Plan of Attack," where Bush says he's "surely not going to justify the war based on God . . . Nevertheless . . . I pray I be as good a messenger of his will as possible."
.
***********.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/13/AR2005101301688.html

[Олег Сах]

Lina, what did you and all of your compadres said when it was alleged that Obama was present at an anti Israeli meeting? Exactly. Can we leave this hearsay alone?

[Лина]

Natan, the first statement was taken out of wikipdeia - which can be edited by anyone: you, me, GW himself... the second from bbc - a source I consider just a tad more reliable.

[Светлана Гэмм]

Do you, guys, think that Palin decided to resigned because G-d had told her so? (fr)

[Натан Мэвэ]

Lina, I don't whether Bush said whatever he said or not, but please do not confuse a statement by BBC (supposedly independent and unbiased organization, let's stipulate that) with a statement by a former Palestinian politician that BBC simply re-printed.

The key phase in the entire article that you've sited is this:
"Nabil Shaath says:"
This was not presented by BBC as a quote for Bush. This was presented as a quote from Nabil Shaath quoting someone else.

So without getting into more silly semanthycs - it is what it is, "hearsay" as Oleg properly noted...

[Натан Мэвэ]

Getting back to Pailin, she does not strike me as one of those "religious nuts" that everyone on the left so afraid of. She seem to have strong religious convictions - nothing wrong with that, but that's a far cry from being a religious fanatic.

And, btw, fanatics are not only religious. There are plenty of other types - and they are just as dangerous, if not more.

[Славик Саж]

Now back to our regular scheduled programming....
Tune in to Fox news. They will be talking about Palin's rating next.
I will try to recap if you are near TV.
P.S. Lina, Fox News is "other news channel"

[Лина]

Natan, if those words don't sound like dear old George,then I don't know where you've been for the last 8 years... also, did you bother to read the article in post? and how about all the other incidents? if it walks like a duck...
.
***********.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/13/AR2005101301688.html

[Лина]

Actually, Slavik, I've been watching Fox news for years... I wasn't even aware of it's reputation until recently... believe it or not, I'm really not that interested in politics.(ch)

[Славик Саж]

On Palin's rating:
View positively - 53%
View Negatively - 40%
after resignation

[Натан Мэвэ]

This is a bad news for democrats. As time goes by it would more and more difficult to pin "quitter" label on her, as it would be not as fresh in the memory of electorate. And Amrican electorate has a notoriously short memory.

Sarah, should not so much worry about democrats as her fellow republicans. They can be just as vicious, if they run against her.

[Лина]

Slavik, are you sure you got those numbers right?
.
"Overall, the new poll found that 53 percent of Americans view Palin negatively and 40 percent see her in positive terms"
.
***********.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/23/AR2009072303799.html

[Светлана Гэмм]

If she decides to come back to politics, I think she should run for some other office before (if ever!) she runs for President. An unfinished one term governor just can't run become President, unless>>>unless>> you name is Obama!(tr) (fr)

[Натан Мэвэ]

No worries, Slavik. There is plenty of time to make up the difference :-D:-D:-D:-D:-D

[Натан Мэвэ]

I really don't see her as "running for an office". I think she'll do more good working behind the scenes. Unless she starts a new party. Then it's a whole different ballgame

[Лина]

Slavik, why would you want to see Sarah Palin in office? Is there something I'm missing?

[Славик Саж]

At this point I have mixed felling about Palin. I don't necessarily want to see her in the office (today) but I wish her well.

[Эдуард Кмэд]

Народ! Я.что-то не понял, Мы где? В 'Fase Book"е, на англо-говорящих сайтах? Где родная русская речь?.
Для практики в английском, мне хватает, ежедневной *"USA Today" *и сайта моего зятя - ***.newsflashr.com, в группе РУССКАЯ АМЕРИКА я хотел бы обсуждать все темы на родной "Мове".

[Олег Сах]

Эдик, эти разговоры стары как мир, здесь все интересующиеся г-жой Пейлин, понимают на обоих языках. Хотите писать по русски - пишите, вас поймут. I liked how you plugged your son-in-laws website, nice product placement technique.