Might angry media incite domestic terrorism?

[Khramaya]

All those angry talking heads - Shultz, Limbaugh, Olbermann, Beck..... too inflammatory from all sides.
I am afraid some trigger happy loonies might take all this rhetoric literally.

[Khramaya]

it is not just FOX. If you look at the names I mentioned- two others -Olbermann and Schultz are just as crazy as FOX's Hannity or Beck, but they are ultra-left. I think they are just as dangerous. Because there are plenty unbalanced people on both sides of the fence.
Besides, all of those "krikuni" are changing some rules of civil respectful debate and instead are just polarizing people. They all feed their audiences half-truth, reduced to caricatures just to make their points.

[Олег Сах]

Julia, as you know domestic terrorists as well as foreign don't even listen to Mass Media. They feed through their own channels. Future Timothy McVeigh or Mohammed Atta considers anything said on CNN, FOX, MSNBC or Al Jazeera to be pro-government, anti religious, Zionist propaganda.

[Васюкова]

Все так называемые вами crazy from Fox News - это единственные достойные внимания media hosts. Это настоящие консерваторы, и они противостоят левым революционерам, которые пришли к власти.
Марк Левин, Раш, а теперьХеннети и Бэк делают все , чтобы разоблачить и свалить левый режим.Уже недостаточно О'Райли.А про левую прессу и mass media и говорить уже нечего... Эти люди (Раш, Марк, Шон и Глен)- наша надежда, что Америка проснется и проснется БЫСТРО.

[Васюкова]

Олег, насколько я понимаю, Джулияимеет в виду не террористов, а участников правого движения (Tee Parties, Town Halls meetings participants, etc). I hope I'm wrong.

[Васюкова]

"Krikuny" who is polarizing people is Obama's gang. America was never so polarized before! And it's REAL "achievement" of new administration.

[Khramaya]

yikes!
where on earth did I mention right vs left?
I do not want ANY terr acts or any assassinations, or any peace disruptions, vs from left, right, upstairs or downstairs. Any lunatic is dangerous, vs leftie or rightie. Please recheck my posts.

[Игорь Киэвс]

Раш не идет ни в какое сравнение с Хеннети или Лавином. Он хотя-бы смеется и говорит то, что думает. Хуже когда появляется злоба этакая, ненависть. Такой тон беседы неприятен сам по себе, но и то, что делает сейчас Обама, это меняет ВСЕ в Америке, судьба страны сейчас находится в руках небольшой группы людей- к лучшему или худшему. Не знаю на чью бы я сторону встал, мне идеалы свободы важнее моего личного счастья. Либерти это неразменная монета, ее на кусок хлеба или лекарство нельзя менять. А такие луны как Оберман или Лавин (уж очень злой у него голос, хотя его книги полны глубоких и верных мыслей и наблюдений) не смогут повести за собой людей, им нужен не пропагандист и агитатор, а пассионарий какой-нибудь. Обама сумел зажечь свою толпу, а у правого лагеря свободы его нет.

[Мария]

First of all, conservatives are not aggressive people. They can get angry, but they will never succumb to violence. That's the one huge difference between the right and the left. If you worry about some media crook igniting the violence, you have to worry only about the crazies on the left. That&39;s important to distinguish between the conservatives and liberals. Especially the ultra-left code pink/greenpeace/dunderheads.
That&39;s dangerous for conservatives to have anti-Obama bumper stickers on their cars, and it was OK for the lefties to drive around with the most hateful and offensive anti-Bush bumper stickers.

[Мария]

Sean Hennety is a very nice guy. He is alsmost too mellow for a conservative talk show host.
Mark Levin is just right. If he raises his voice on the radio -it's just to add the passion to his point. He is a constitutional attorney, so it must hurt for a really knowledgeable educated person to see how the statists in the current administration are systematically destroying the Republic.
Rush is a lovable fuzz-ball.:-D
On the other had, you have the vitriol obnoxious Bill MaHER,
totally repulsive evil Olberman, a total idiot Chris Matthew... Just to start. Don't even want to type those names. Yak!:-S

[Sasha Оlik]

Игорь, Обама не смог бы я думаю зажечь даже свою тещу, не то что толпу, если бы не то состояние ненависти к Бушу, которое смогла разжечь лево-либеральная пресса в Америке. Я не знаю какой, злой или добрый голос у Марка Левина, но то что его книги bestseller #1 в стране это факт, и говорит он вещи правильные безо всякой политкорректности. Поэтому либералы его ненавидят, но в открытую как с Шоном, Рашем, тягатся с ним не могут. Он их посылает прямо и конкретно без всяких вежливых реверансов.

[Васюкова]

Марк Левин безусловно пассионарен.И он глубоко мыслящий человек. Неважно, какой у него голос. Я тоже предпочитаю мужской бархатистый баритон, например. Важно, о чем он говорит.Ему нет равных по глубине анализа даже среди самых лучших консервативных ведущих. Мне он представляется безусловным лидером, способным на политическую карьеру. Я бы проголосовала за него, если б он баллотировался в президенты. Знание истории и Конституции у него великолепное.Оратор он сильнейший. Куда тампустому популисту Обаме!

[Васюкова]

Джулия, если даже Вы не сказали эти два слова "right" and "left", Вы все равно говорили про конкретных "rights and lefts". Let's do not play mind games.

[Васюкова]

My new car was scratched twice when I put anti-Obama stickers on. Stickers were taken out (not by me).

[Sasha Оli]

Валентина, а вы ожидали что Вашу машину украсят цветами за anti-Obama sticker? Вот такие у них аргументы

[Khramaya]

" Let's do not play mind games."
Yes, let's not play any mind games. I hate hysterical commentaries whichever directions they come from. I do respect good and thoughtful commentary from the right and from the left.
As far as comedians mentioned earlier, they mean to be funny, that's about it.

[Sasha Оlik]

Юля, а позвольте узнать, кого вы относите к "истерическим" комментаторам, а кого к "хорошим и думающим"?

[Khramaya]

I like Fareed Zakaria a lot.
Actually also respect Buchanan. And Brooks.
btw, I decided to browse and see if it's just me who's paranoid or there is something to it, and here is what I found:
***********.star-telegram.com/news/story/1676600.html#

[Sasha Оli]

А Фарид Закария относится к думающим потому что брал интервью у Медведева и порывался взять у Ахмадинеджада, пока Лари его не опередил, еще наверно один из думающих? А вот типа Грета или О"Райли относятся , наверное к истеричным, потому что у них нет таких оригинально-маргинальных взглядов?

[Лина]

First of all, conservatives are not aggressive people. They can get angry, but they will never succumb to violence. That's the one huge difference between the right and the left. If you worry about some media crook igniting the violence, you have to worry only about the crazies on the left. Especially the ultra-left code pink/greenpeace/dunderheads.
----------------------------------------------------------------
just because you choose to callliberals aggressive, dangerous,crazy dunderheads, doesn't automatically make it so -in fact, evidence would indicate, otherwise.so far, the only aggression in this thread is coming from the right side - via the above mentioned name calling and baseless accusations...

[Лина]

That&39;s dangerous for conservatives to have anti-Obama bumper stickers on their cars, and it was OK for the lefties to drive around with the most hateful and offensive anti-Bush bumper stickers
---------------------------------------------------------------
you say it's dangerous, for you, a peaceloving, gun toting conservative to have an anti Obama sticker on your car? meanwhile, I, as an "aggressive" liberal, would have never thought of decorating my bumper with any hatefulslogans - no matter how much I disliked GW... that's just not my style. another place where conservatives and liberals seem to differ.

[Мария]

Julia, so what's so special about this article? It just repeats the lefttist lament that the conservatives are opposing Obama's grandiose plan to "fundamentally transform this country" ( verbatum from Obama's campaign speech last October.We the People do not want to fundamentally transform this country. But to the radicals we become the obstacle and the only way to push their radical agenda is to marginalise the voice of opposition.
This is the classic tool from the Obama's spiritual father Saul Alinsky's book " Rules for Radicals".
So, it's not some kind of paranoia -it's the rules for radicals in action.

[Светлана Гэмм]

Julia, what is you favorite conservative?
My favorite liberal was/is Alan Colmes when he was on FOX...btw, there is another conservative talk-radio host Monica Crowley (почти как краля :-D )PhD, and she is his sister-in-law (fr) ... almost all conservatives who came on FOX have said Colmes was their favorite too...:-D

[Лина]

"Krikuny" who is polarizing people is Obama's gang. America was never so polarized before! And it's REAL "achievement" of new administration.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, it was just as polarized... the other side just tends to express their disapproval in a less vocal, more civilized,manner.

[Мария]

Julia is not here for now, so I'll post this rule from the Alinsky book :

Rule 11: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, polarize it.
That's what the current administration and their lapdog media are doing with Rush, Beck , Fox etc.
Но не на таких напали:-D Кишка тонка

[Светлана Гэмм]

Маша, you have to explain who Alinsky is...how should I put it? *-) ...our president's mentor...almost...favorite philosopher...(tr)
Saul Alinsky (January 30, 1909, Chicago, Illinois – June 12, 1972, Carmel, California) was a well-known community organizer and writer. He is generally considered to be the founder of modern community organizing In the course of nearly four decades of organizing the poor for radicalsocial action, Alinsky made many enemies, but he has also won therespect, however grudging, of a disparate array of public figures. Hisorganizing skills were focused on improving the living conditions ofpoor communities across North America. In the 1950s, he began turning his attention to improving conditions of the African-American ghettos, beginning with Chicago's and later traveling to other ghettos in California, Michigan, New York City, and a dozen other "trouble spots."
This is the jews I am not proud of...(tr) :-(

[Лина]

and who are you to judge him? please enlighten usabout some of your praiseworthy accomplishments - as a Jew and otherwise

[Mike]

it was kinda funny to read the comments about how uber-conservatives can't be violent..
how about all those crazy people blowing up abortion clinics?
also wasn't there a dude just lately who killed a doctor who performed late term abortions?
i don't think it matters uber-conservative or uber-liberal.. either side has a good number of psychos.
now, i think the media is credited with too much here. Terrorists are more of a function of the environment they grow up in, not the media.
it's like the lunatics who tried to credit violent computer games with teen violence.

[Светлана Гэмм]

who told you the killer who killed the abortionist was a conservative or was supported by the right? :-) just because he hated abortions and went ko-ko?...but if you look at the overrall protests/demonstrations organized by left and right, you will see the difference in behavior...
many Iraq war veterans have been violently attacked and even killed...

[Mike]

********en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence
I assume a bunch of them (if not all ) are ultra-right, religious psychos.
I doubt there a many anti-abortionists among the liberals.

[Светлана Гэмм]

********en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States
I doubt many criminal vote republicans...;-)

[Mike]

i doubt many criminals vote in general, but what does that have to do with the subject???

[Светлана Гэмм]

nothing with the subject, you were just trying to draw a parallel between some religious wackos and the right, and I am telling you they are not coneccted...but on the subject media does like to talk about those crazy murderers as to support their point of view - prolifers are automatically violent, unhinged murderers-hypocrites, and the vast majority of them are not. But when the story involves a black murderer and an soldier, they are exceptionally quite...
and more on the subject - no, media doesn't and will not incite domestic terrorism - opposing our very-left wing, radical president's agenda is not the same as being a criminal or engaging in terrorism...

[Mike]

so, you are saying the psycho pro-lifers who bomb clinics are not religious freaks?
and as such would not they be "conservative"?

[Мария]

If a pro-lifer kills someone, he is not pro-lifer anymore. He is a criminal, and as such is not a part of the conservative movement.
But if a marksist kills 70 million people, he is not just a part of the liberal movement, he is a favorite philosopher.

[Mike]

Maria, I see..
But when they yell and scream at the women who go into abortion clinic they are still pro-lifers? How about when they threaten them?

[Светлана Гэмм]

Mike, I know how much you adore religion (ch)...and consider people of faith...hmmm...nuts?...but let me assure you - most religious people (not all, but the vast majority) are very normal, very adequate, some are even exeptionally bright and smart...and your trying to box them is not flattering...(v)

[Mike]

this is totally off-topic..
but i will answer for the 100s time.
i don't consider people of faith anything..
i consider people of religion a bit off..
i consider religious fanatics - freaks
now this is not about me about religious freaks.. i don't go out and picket churches and mosks..
it's about the freaks who always want to interfere with other peoples lives and sometimes they do it in extreme ways.

[Mike]

religious - following the dogmas of a specific organized religion ( my definition )

[Светлана Гэмм]

i consider religious fanatics - freaks
totally agree, religious and not, fanatics are freaks!
atheists or not so religious :-) or just freaks on the left, btw, also trying to interfere in a lot of people's lives - ban school vouchers, universal healthcare, excessive business regulations, political correctness and so on ...do you agree?

[Диана]

and what about people, following specific organized religion without any dogmas?

[Mike]

Diana, following any religion implies dogmatism. Otherwise there is no "following" :)
There are freaks everywhere.. however the argument was made that conservatives are all мягкие и пушистые.. where i believe there is no difference on the edges conservative or liberal.

[Лина]

If a pro-lifer kills someone, he is not pro-lifer anymore. He is a criminal, and as such is not a part of the conservative movement.
But if a marksist kills 70 million people, he is not just a part of the liberal movement, he is a favorite philosopher.
------------------------------------------------------------------
One is a conservative nutjob (most likely a registered republican), the other is the former dictator of a country that has absolutely no relevance to this thread or the liberal movement... and since neither one of us (I'm assuming)has read any of his writings, I don't see the point of bringing them up.Nice to see youutilizing a tactic commonly used by the conservative media. (Y)

[Мария]

however the argument was made that conservatives are all мягкие ипушистые.. where i believe there is no difference on the edgesconservative or liberal.
That's why they are on the edges -no normal conservative wants them in the middle.
However, on the left, the edges are so wide, that they mix into the middle, and you can't tell where is the border.

[Мария]

One is a conservative nutjob (most likely a registered republican)
Have you heard of libertarians? They are sometimes kooks.

[Лина]

btw, aren't most (all?)white supremacists and neo-nazies also conservative? and who is their hero, again?

[Светлана Гэмм]

If people remember Tuckie Williams - very prominent liberal leaders and politicians were begging for his forgiveness, when even the majority of very liberal Californians were against it...with the lunatic like Eric Rudollph, no conservative - prominent or otherwise - would even think about giving him a pass, legally or emotionally...that's the difference to me...

[Мария]

btw, aren't most (all?)white supremacists and neo-nazies also conservative? and who is their hero, again?
This shows that you have no clue what Conservatism is.:-|

[Светлана Гэмм]

the logic with Tookie is that some liberals are more radical or on the edges than most conservatives, especially liberal leader...

[Лина]

the logic with Tookie is that some liberals are more radical or on the edges than most conservatives
--------------------------------------------------------
some liberals are more radical than most conservatives? meaning that most liberals are less radical?

[Mike]

i believe nobody wanted to pardon him.. the difference was life in prison vs death...
i don't see a principle difference between those 2.

[Khramaya]

Sveta, to your question as to who my favorite conservative is - I gave it some thought and can say I don't have a favorite liberal either ( well, except for Jon Stewart, of course:-D ), but one of my favorite American presidents is Teddy Roosevelt. I would vote with his "clone" these days.

[Светлана Гэмм]

I meant grant him clemency...politicians from Cali were lobbying for him...
the difference I you can't name someone you consider on the edge and say they belong to conservatives, can you?
or what's your definition of being on the edge?

[Светлана Гэмм]

why do you like Teddy?
the reason I am asking - I think you probably think he was progressive for his times, but being progressive then has nothing to do with even being progressive like FDR...something tells me he wouldn't support anything FDR did domestically, as for the rest of the modern liberal politians, I will take a pass..(ch)

[Khramaya]

I like his views on assimilation of immigrants, his work for with National parks, his wide views overall. He was not a polarizing figure, nuanced, intelligent, educated, well read...

[Khramaya]

i read a book about him a while ago, that was my impression then- maybeI forgot some stuff, but it was just a general feeling - I liked theguy.
I actually liked Bush Sr for many things he did, his son is a whole other story.....

[Светлана Гэмм]

In an 1894 article on immigration, Roosevelt said, "We mustAmericanize in every way, in speech, in political ideas and principles,and in their way of looking at relations between church and state. Wewelcome the German and the Irishman who becomes an American. We have nouse for the German or Irishman who remains such... He must revere onlyour flag, not only must it come first, but no other flag should evencome second.

That's what he said on immigration...super-conservative according to today's standards :-)...today he would be called a radical...(tr)

[Лина]

I think it makes more sense to judge a historical figure within the context of the time in which he lived, rather than compare him to today's standards...

[Мария]

Sveta,agree. Today, if you want immigrants to assimilate and embrace the American values, you will be called a racist.
So, Yulia, how can you try to emulate what Teddy Roosevelt did, and not be called a racist?

[Khramaya]

it seems kind of strange to equate assimilation with racism(md) (md) .
The focus these days shifted towards effective assimilation with preservation of ethnic identity - a more evolved concept, that is it.
Isn't this what you are trying to do - live in America and still speak Russian at home? :-D

[Mike]

Svetlana,
how is changing death sentence to life in prison make one a radical?
although i know you called me a radical for saying that US government made some bad choices on the past ..

[Светлана Гэмм]

:-) I did NOT call you a radical! :-) I agree that our government has made some bad choices...we may disagree on what choices...
yes, making a saint of that criminal, some even wanted to set him free saying he was a totally changed person, and even just wanted him to spend life in prison - it's all radical - using a cold-blooded murderer to advance own agenda of abolishing death-penalty...btw. Tookie was a Nobel Peace Prize nominee...(tr)

[Алексей Пэтк]

That's what he said on immigration...super-conservative according to today's standards
Why is it super-conservative? I though he was talking about embracing American ideals -- precisely what any immigrant to the US should do. I don't think this is conservative or liberal -- this is natural.

[Светлана Гэмм]

that's right - embracing American ideals...but you'd surprised how in some places in this country it's NOT encouraged - California has a bilingual education in public schools...

[Mike]

what's wrong with bi-lingual education?
as long as they learn English they can learn another language as well..
i would love all schools to mandate bi or even tri-lingual education.

[Mike]

Svetlana, i do distinctly remember that you said something like " i am responsible for radicalization of Mike, as he now critiques what US does"

[Алексей Пэтк]

I think what Svetlana means is that immigrant's children requested education in their native language. There was a case like that in Massachusetts. This I don't understand -- what is the point of coming to the US if you refuse to learn the language? I DO understand additional remedial (free) English courses to help assimilation...

[Светлана Гэмм]

Mike, I used to think you have a sense of humor :-(
you never explained why you criticized actions of US government with respect to dealing with Taliban then...do you believe it has contributed to the problems with terrorists we have now?
if someone blames US actions for what terrorists are doing today, yes, I believe it's radical...because the blame should be with terrorists (Taliban, eventhough they were not perfect back then) were NOT terrorists in the 70s and 80s...
it's like blaming Israel for the actions of palestenian terrorists on Israel's existence and wanting to protect themselves...

[Mike]

Svetlana, i am not going to go in circles, but i do believe Taliban was always terrorists.. the methods they employed against the USSR are no different from the methods they are employing right now. And we are responsible for funding them and training them at the time.. this is not an opinions it's a fact.

[Светлана Гэмм]

Mike, why should US taxpayers pay for educating their kids in their language?...you want to keep your lanquage, teach your own kids, but not in public schools - teaching them all subjects in their lanquage??? this is what it means bilingual education, not just learning a foreignn lanquage - it just prevents the whole process of assimilation...

[Mike]

i don't think it should be in their language... but in a language they don't know..
i was not sure what bi-lingual education was then..
but i do think they should teach classes in 2 languages.. i think everyone should know at least 2 languages when they are done with highschool.. and not on the level they know it now, where i learned more Spanish in 2 months then an average highschooler in 4 years.

[Khramaya]

totally agree about bilingual education. And not in the wat our Ukranian schools were. Real bilingual. With ESL in the first 1-2 years to pull foreign speakers up to some level. We have a family in our practice from Cuba- fater married an American and got his 3 kids from his first marriage out of Cuba, they all started school last year, got ESL, now fluent in both languages, Spanish at home, of course, but they are doing phenomenally in school! And the oldest girl was 15 and did not speak a word of English last year. That' s the way is should be done, and it is done in the majority of cases.

[Светлана Гэмм]

Ok, opposing the illegally installed government by the Soviet Union doesn't make you a terrorist...doesn't matter how much you dislike religious Muslims...at one point, our founding fathers were resisting the British government, and I would not call them terrorists...when Iraqi insurgents/terrorists are blowing up people and not recognizing the Iraqi government, they ARE terrorists, because the Iraqi government has been legally put there by the Iraqis...
Anyway, this is how I differentiate those opposing a tyrannical government and being true terrorists even when done by the people of the same religion...

[Mike]

by definition terrorism is still terrorism does not matter who it's used against.
as long as your are indiscriminately kill civilians to accomplish your goals you are a terrorist.