Business Ethics

[Mike]

i have to rant about this one.. i posted in my group as well.. but feel like more people should be exposed.. call me crazy :)
Все пытаются наебать..
I spent some time on 47th street, looking for/buying some things..
It's really scary how scammy these people are..
Fucken religious jews who have no ethics at all... if i did business like them i would not be able to sleep at night
The entire diamond district seems like a scam, when dealing with these people u feel like a mark.
They clearly know what they are selling, but u don't really know what they are buying, and they try to take advantage of you as much as they possibly can.

[Светлана Гэмм]

I know of a very good ethical store there, been buying there for decades, "Delicate Gem"...unless you are looking for a bargain...;-)

[Mike]

i was not looking for a bargain.. i was looking for them to make me a very specific thing, which they said they would..
and they made nothing like it..
AND were trying to convince me this is exactly what i ordered..
i mean i had a BIG high definition picture of what i wanted.. i am not blind, not stupid..
feel dirty just thinking of them..

[Светлана Гэмм]

Mike, they are not really artistic jewelers there, they are more into re-sale, unfortunately...
I did get really nice earrings there once and wanted to get the same design ring...well, it didn't really come out the same design or more like the same quality...
you are lucky if they can re-size your ring there well...

[Mike]

u don't get it..
it's not about what they can and can't do..
because I know they can do it... ok here is more..
the ring i want is a pretty think platinum band... you can't make it right unless you make it thick, because of the braids.
they made it about 1/2 of the thickness, so it can't possibly be right.
I know why, because they wanted to save money on the metal, but the worst part - they tried to convince me that they made the exact right thing.
All 3 of them!! Yarmolkas, the whole bit..
I almost blew up on them..
So they got the guy who made the design for them to come over, and tried to blame it on him! The poor chinise dude was like - i know the ring, i have made it before, but if you want it done right it has to be thicker.

[Mike]

it's not about the ring at all actually..
it's about ethics, about keeping your word, about making an honest living, about not scamming people.

[Алексей Пэт]

Normal capitalist business - they just try to make money on you. ;-)
To be serious, I feel for you, man -- I think you have enough things on your plate to worry about that sh!t right now.

[Mike]

Aleksey, i am all for profit... but i am a true believer that you have to maintain ethics and integrity no matter what you do.

[Светлана Гэмм]

Perhaps, the ethics were their main concern, they where afraid to violate one's copy rights by copying too perfectly, I guess...

[Mike]

lol, right :) this is exactly what they were afraid when they specifically told me "we will make it identical, you will not be able to tell a difference"
but wait!! this is not all.
i asked them for a solitare sapphire stone. I gave them the size and some of the specs.. i knew the most important thing was - no cracks in it. i was flexible on a color.
they bring me a stone..
first thing $2500 price..
me huh? this is WAY too much...
they say ok, $1400..
( this is actually almost fair price i think ) so i look at it at the angle and there is an internal crack.
I say ok, there is a crack in it.. he tried to convince me it was just a light reflection. Anyway, i walk out, go to a different place.
(cont....)

[Mike]

walk into a different place.. another yarmolka.
same conversation.. looking for a stone. blah blah..
brings me a stone.. $2500
dark color, i mean i can tell some basic defects..
i say, no.. i want a NICE stone..
ok, he brings a nice stone..
$3500.
i am like, ok i know how much it costs, give me a good price.
he goes $2000
so i say, ok, please show me the papers on it.. he refuses for like 5 minutes.. later he shows me the papers.. it's .5 ct smaller then what he claimed it to be..
tomorrow i will go back, hopefully can find someone without a fucken yarmolka

[Светлана Гэмм]

check these people out...they usually have good quailty stuff...no gimmicks and no kippah...:-)
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(110, 110, 110); font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">
***********.delicategem.com/
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(69, 69, 69);">27 W 47th St
New York, NY <span class="metro" style="display: inline; font-size: 10px; padding-left: 10px; margin-bottom: 5px; color: rgb(123, 121, 91); font-family: Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;">

Phone:(212) 354-7449
Mike, it's all about expectations...unfortnately I learned the hard way too - they are not capablle of making custom-made good quality stuff there...

[Светлана Гэмм]

sorry for the mess...
***********.delicategem.com/
27 W 47th St
NewYork, NY

Phone (212) 354-7449

[Mike]

Svetlana, this topic was NOT about the quality, not about the rings or sapphires... it's about ethics, the lack of basic порядочность i business dealings..
But thanks for the link, i will check them out.

[Светлана Гэмм]

well, people are people...there are always going to unethical and indecent people...some places have more of them, some - less...
how is it different from the insider trading?

[Mike]

for insider trading people go to jail.. these people make their living like this.. hmm.. you gave me an idea..
tomorrow they will try it again ( to get the ring right ) if they fail and don't give me my deposit back i will call the cops and file a fraud lawsuit against them.

[Светлана Гэмм]

(Y) ...here you go - let them learn the hard way...:-)...and that's the beauty of living in a country of law...a lot of times we can send them to where they belong...
that&39;s our job, as consumers, to be smart and look out for the crooks...I would not deal with anyone on 47th if I didn't feel comfortable no matter what they say...
when I lived in NY, never liked small stores, always prefered to go to department stores...
that jewelry store was an exception...and that's why there is a word of mouth - reputation is the most important thing in buseness...didn't work well with Madoff...(tr)

[Светлана Гэмм]

just remembered something (have not been there for some time now) - it's either a rule in that kind of business or some respectable businesses have this kind of policy - money back quaranteed for any unsatisafactory appraisal (of price, quality or size)..in case the characteristics were overstated or value-inflated...so unless the store has this policy, I would not trust them...

[Лина]

I guess Svetlana was right, religion does make people morally superior. sure hope they weren't republicans, to boot.(fr)

[Mike]

today is a fraud bonanza.. i read like 5 articles on different things.. let me paste some here
By Patricia Hurtado
Nov. 5 (Bloomberg) -- FBI agents arrested seven people in
relation to an ongoing federal investigation of insider trading
in the hedge fund industry, agency spokesman James Margolin said
today in an interview.
The Federal Bureau of Investigation, along with the
Securities and Exchange Commission, were involved in the
arrests, the FBI said. Margolin declined further comment.

[Mike]

Former Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik is expected to plead guiltythis morning before a federal judge in White Plains. The AssociatedPress reports that a person familiar with the case says the guilty pleawill resolve three federal criminal trials currently pending againstKerik.He faces up to 20 years in prison for the most seriouscharges against him, but the plea deal could shorten that sentence tounder three years.
Kerik was scheduled to stand trial nextMonday, for allegedly accepting apartment renovations from a contractorwith ties to organized crime. Prosecutors say the company did the workhoping Kerik would help it obtain a city license. Kerik is charged withtax evasion and lying to the government.

[Mike]

The IBM executive charged with insider trading by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission is out of a job at Big Blue.
Robert Moffat, the head of IBM's Systems and Technology Group, wascharged with conspiracy to commit securities fraud in mid-October andsubsequently placed on a temporary leave of absence.

[Mike]

JPMorgan execs Charles E. LeCroy and Douglas W. MacFaddin bribed localfirms with ties to the Jefferson County Commission in 2002-03 to ensurethat JPMorgan would be selected as the county's bond underwriter andswaps provider.
In taped conversations, the men acknowledgedthe payments were "scam transactions" and "payoffs" that were "theprice of doing business," according to the SEC complaint.

[Светлана Гэмм]

Welcome to New York!!! You sound so surprised...
btw, did any of the place, that you went to, had the money back guarantee for unsatisfactory appraisal? did you know that some places would take you to an appraisal with their bodyguard BEFORE you buy?

[Mike]

Looks like SEC is finally waking up!! They were asleep for 30 years now, time to earn their keep.
I don't think our jails are big enough to fit all the corrupt people tho.
This is actually a pretty big store on 47th..
I don't know their policies..
and there is really nothing to appraise yet...
there is a picture of the ring i want them to make and that's all.

[Светлана Гэмм]

actually that what my husband keeps telling me when I push him to invest more - he says they are all a bunch of crooks there...would you want to have only 30% of what you have...now you can say your profit is 70%...
I think all those financial advisers and brokers should be financially liable for giving bad advise...or their fees should be tied to profits you make...

[Mike]

Sveta, hedge fund managers are very much tied to the profit they make for you.. Their fee is usually a small management fee + percentage of profit..

[Inna Xvo]

Mike, actually - I have never ever would go to 47th street if I want to buy rellly good piece of jewelry and ESPECIALLY stone!.... the only right way to buy dimonds is from companies that can give you sertificate... but I feel sorry for you!:-)

[Mike]

So, i have an update on my stone search!
Today as i was walking around i stopped by a totally random jewelry place.
Met the nicest dude ever!! He literally spent an hour teaching me gemology.. i now know why some stones cost more some less how to tell sapphire from tanzanite, how to look for inclusions, how to evaluate luster, etc, etc..
No hard sale at all.. told me to go back think about it, come back when i decide..
Wow.. there are good people out there afterall!!

[Светлана Гэмм]

Inna, you do get a certificate on 47th street...you just have to go to an independent apprasal, and for 50 bucks you will get a writing on the wall and a piece of mind...
Mike, next time buy from Tiffany ;-) - american company - plus you can even bring it back for any reason for a store credit if you change your mind...and the design will be fantastic - no need for a high resolution picture...:-)
or check out costco.com - they sell nice jewelry at reasonable prices...you see I am used to living in a civilized world by now...:-)

[Светлана Гэмм]

Jan. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Hank Greenberg, former chiefexecutiveofficer at American International Group Inc., saidGoldman Sachs GroupInc. is responsible for the collapse ofthe insurer during the economiccrisis, the Wall Street Journal reported. “It certainly wouldn’t be difficult to come to thatconclusion,” Greenberg is quoted as telling the newspaperyesterday.
Greenbergblamed new standards for credit-default swaps --pushed by Goldman orDeutsche Bank AG, he said -- and subprime, housing-backed derivativessold and then shorted by Goldman as contributing to AIG’s collapse, thenews paperreported.
“Mr. Greenberg appears to basehis views on newsreports rather than facts,” Lucas van Praag, aGoldmanspokesman, said in an e-mail to Bloomberg News. “Itisinteresting that he doesn’t mention the devastating conclusions aboutAIG reached by the company’s ownauditors.”

[Светлана Гэмм]

just wanted to share this with you (ch)
first our "ethical" governement" has devasted the AIG, a la Spitzer, now we hear Goldman has been engaged in this kind of practices..but our government is full of people form Goldman - is it our treasury??