Intellectuals and Society

[Светлана Гэмм]

came across these two great articles
********townhall.com/columnists/ThomasSowell/2010/01/05/intellectuals_and_society
********townhall.com/columnists/ThomasSowell/2010/01/05/intellectuals_and_society?page=2

[Светлана Гэмм]

came across these two great articles
********townhall.com/columnists/ThomasSowell/2010/01/05/intellectuals_and_society
********townhall.com/columnists/ThomasSowell/2010/01/05/intellectuals_and_society?page=2

[Светлана Гэмм]

The Wright brothers, who fulfilled the centuries-old dream of humanbeings flying, were by no means intellectuals. Nor were those whoconquered the scourge of polio and other diseases, or who created theelectronic marvels that we now take for granted.
All these people produced a tangible product or service andthey were judged by whether those products and services worked. Butintellectuals are people whose end products are intangible ideas, andthey are usually judged by whether those ideas sound good to otherintellectuals or resonate with the public.
Whether their ideas turn out to work-- whether they make life better or worse for others-- is another question entirely.

[Светлана Гэмм]

It may seem strange that so many people of great intellect have saidand done so many things whose consequences ranged fromcounterproductive to catastrophic. Yet it is not so surprising when weconsider whether anybody has ever had the range of knowledge requiredto make the sweeping kinds of decisions that so many intellectuals areprone to make, especially when they pay no price for being wrong.
Intellectuals and their followers have often been overlyimpressed by the fact that intellectuals tend, on average, to have moreknowledge than other individuals in their society. What they haveoverlooked is that intellectuals have far less knowledge than the totalknowledge possessed by the millions of other people whom they disdainand whose decisions they seek to override.
We have had to learn the consequences of elite preemption the hard way-- and many of us have yet to learn that lesson.

[Лина]

What is this obsession of yours with anti-intellectualism? You don't have to answer, I already know.
An intellectual is a person who uses intelligence (thought and reason) and analytical thinking, either in a professional or a personal capacity.
Wilbur Wright finished 4 years of high school, although he never graduated, Orville dropped out after his junior year... Although this may not seem impressive by todays standards, this was quite an achievement in the 19th century, especially since in 1940 only 50% of young adults had earned a high school diploma. Furthermore, Wilbur planned on attending Yale... Both brothers were self-educated engineers.
.
Do you consider Bill Gates an intellectual? He dropped out of college. Is GW an intellectual just because he attended Harvard and Yale? What exactly is an intellectual in your book, and whats so bad about being one?

[Светлана Гэмм]

What exactly is an intellectual in your book,
the minimum qualification would be not being a moonbat..(ch)
and whats so bad about being one?
there is none..the author of the article (and he has a book on the subject too, Thomas Sowell, is an intellectual in my book...the intellectuals that contributed to the betterment of people's lives and I admire the most are probably our Founding Fathers, and their principles they founded are still working..
the intellectuals that I am very suspicious about are the ones on the left..to me many of them are pseudo-intellectuals since they fail to draw the right conclusions from history, analyze their own ideas and their consequences followed..also intellectuals are great when they do what they know best, like Bill Gates and computers..when they start worrying about the rest of humanity, lifting people from poverty, advocating what the rest of us should do..in other words, building own legacy and playing popularism..

[Светлана Гэмм]

they refuse to see that the same ideas they are using never worked..orspending billions of dollars on a study to see if a diaphragm preventsAIDS!!??..I would have told him that for half the price..
here is another good article by the same author
********article.nationalreview.com/?q=MDgzMGYyYmNmN2Y2NDFlMTdjNmI0OWExOGRiZmQ0YWM=#mo re

[Mike]

what a brain-dead article..
by definition intellectuals are those who think and make conclusions, some conclusion will always turn out to be right and others wrong..
making empty, unsubstantiated by facts statements in tune of "In the 1930s, it was the intellectuals who pooh-poohed the dangers from the rise of Hitler and urged Western disarmament"
don't serve any useful purpose.. the article is just a flamebait, same as this topic.

[Гера Така]

There is a difference between the "Enlightened Progressive Intellectuals" and people with intelligence.

[Mike]

Enlightened Progressive Intellectuals vs Braindead Regressive Pigfuckers? :)
i mean what's the opposite?

[Гера Така]

There is no opposite to the brainwashed retarded individuals...
There are also - people with education, also dogs and cats lovers, some of us promised to clean the Ocean...

[Светлана Гэмм]

don't serve any useful purpose.. the article is just a flamebait, same as this topic.
WTF??? speaking like the present here brain-dead regressive pigfuckers (ch) I have to consult retards now which topics to open? :-) (L)

[Mike]

Intellectuals are the opposite of brainwashed :) by definition intellectuals think for themselves vs being spoonfed

[Гера Така]

An intellectual is a person who uses intelligence (thought andreason) and analytical thinking, either in a professional or a personalcapacity.


... from the given information...


Unlike the "Enlightened" - who prefer to teach the populous ...

[Mike]

400 years ago (today ) one of those evil progressives observed that Jupiter had 4 moons orbiting it, this and other findings lead to his publications station that earth was not the center of the world.
the "conservatives" of that time repeatedly tried to suppress his studies and was actually tried for heresy. He was imprisoned and his books were banned.

[Светлана Гэмм]

by definition intellectuals are those who think and make conclusions,some conclusion will always turn out to be right and others wrong..
making empty, unsubstantiated by facts statements in tune of "In the 1930s, it was the intellectuals who pooh-poohed the dangers from the rise of Hitler and urged Western disarmament"
you got to be the most spoonfed or unread person not to know about the appeasement views policies in Europe..
you got to be the most spoon-fed and unread person not to know about the appeasement views and policies throughout the world during that time..
that kind of views and post are intended as flamebait..

[Гера Така]

Mike,
You are playing words.. he was from the time of Enlightenment...
in reality - He was an intellectual from the time period called Enlightenment. It does not mean he was Enlightened... and definitely he did not call himself that..

[Светлана Гэмм]

Rabinovich, you are free not to address any topics I open, because you are obviously here to insult people..so it's kinda disgusting to have this kind of conversation...
I don't know what kind of idiot or uninformed person doesn't know that the NYT likes were always supportive of the Soviet regime, would write dishonest articles, cover up facts,etc. for as long as they exist..and they are the ones who consider themselves intellectuals..and anybody with the opposite views are anti-intellectuals..and that's why the moonbats here repeat the mantra..

[Mike]

Gera, he did not have to call himself that.. this is what he was, someone who was enlightened and an intellectual and a progressive..
The roman church was "the conservatives" of those times..
If the church still had the power we would still think that the world revolves around the earth.. actually if it was not for the "enlightened progressive intellectuals" we would not even have a wheel, as "conservatives" would argue that wheels are an evil invention of the satan and our life was perfect for thousands of wheelless years :).

[Гера Така]

The roman church was not "the conservatives" - they were uneducated nuts and they had inquisition and pushed their dogma onto the masses!
Similar to today's Enlightened ones... do not play the words.
Смотри в корень!
(Козьма Прутков)
This not the discussion about educated vs. uneducated... I thought - this is about people who can think for themselves.

[Светлана Гэмм]

(md) what do modern American conservatives have anything do with the Roman Church..I mean when will this lunacy end?? You have to have no perspective to say that..(hu)

[Лина]

the intellectuals that contributed to the betterment of people's lives and I admire the most are probably our Founding Fathers, and their principles they founded are still working..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
also known as liberals... before you open your mouth, they were liberal within the context of their time...similarly,the views of present day liberals will also seem rather conservative a few hundred years from now.

[Светлана Гэмм]

yeah, they WERE liberals of THEIR times, not even liberals, but progressives..but the modern liberal "intellectuals" or the left today no longer hold their views, ideas or principles as golden..and that's a HUGE problem..many lefties today prefer the European thinking (more socialistic) which in contradiction with the thinking of the founders..

[Лина]

what do modern American conservatives have anything do with the Roman Church..
-------------------------------------------------------------------
justlike the present day modern American conservatives, the Roman church of thatperiod (and today)was having difficulty keeping up with the times, holding on to the past, and refusing to look forward towards the future - resisting any kind of change or progress.

[Светлана Гэмм]

sorry, but it's retarded..first, we don't progress for the sake of progress..we learn from the past, we preserve the principles of what made this place unique and great, and it was not collectivism, but individualism..
BTW, Reagan, eventhough doesn't fit the profile, if not intellectual, but a really great person..he, on his own, came up with the strategy to win the Cold War, no one ever tried before, and it worked..and it's all because he knew that America is the greatest place, and communism is to be defeated, not appeased..
but some, who think they are really "enlightened" and great, still, to this day, refuse to admit it..what is the term for them?? (ch)

[Лина]

the left today no longer hold their views, ideas or principles as golden..
---------------------------------------------------------
that's not entirely true... but if you think about it, neither would they(FF), had they lived today... for as you yourself have said, they were progressives... why stop at politics, why not start dressing and behaving as people did hundreds of years ago? what would the founding fathers say of your present day clothing, the fact that you hold a job... ? just because you choose to live in the past, don't condemn those who look towards the future.

[Светлана Гэмм]

I am all about the future..except when the future is socialism..but history shows that the only time we improve our future is when we stick to something that's proven to work..like living in a free country, American way..
that's why I said..let smart people what they know and do best, do it on their own, in the private sector, with their own money, where they face all the consequences of their ideas...that's how we generate the best ideas and progress..

[Лина]

no one ever tried before, and it worked
----------------------------------------------------
it worked because the time was right... it didn't work with brezhnev, andropov, or chernenko... RR just got lucky with gorbachev

[Лина]

gorbachev - yet another progressive, refusing to hold on to the "golden" principles of his country's founding fathers.

[Лина]

and it's all because he knew that America is the greatest place, and communism is to be defeated, not appeased..
---------------------------------------------------------------
change America to the USSR, and communism to capitalism, and you sound like a typical commie.

[Светлана Гэмм]

In the 1930s, it was the intellectuals who pooh-poohed the dangers from the rise of Hitler and urged Western disarmament"
btw, what's there to substantiate?..was the world full of intellectuals screaming back in the 30s that Hitler was very dangerous, eventhough his book was out for everyone to read?? or it took millions to die before they finally got it?? (ch)
yeah, except we are all here, and not in a communistic China or N Korea..and their doors are open too..
I mean, do you actually have to be an intellectual to know that we live in a great country?? (ch)

[Мария]

How and why such patterns have existed among intellectuals is achallenging question, whose answer can determine the fate of millionsof other people.
Вопрос очень сложный, и ответ на него трудно сформулировать в двух словах...
Мне кажется, что среди интеллигенции/интеллектуалов очень много малодушных и трусливых людей. Бога они обычно отвергают, но в поисках защиты обращаются к идеям статизма.

[Khramaya]

"Reagan, even though doesn't fit the profile, if not intellectual, but areally great person..he, on his own, came up with the strategy to winthe Cold War, no one ever tried before, and it worked..
- if I am reading this right - this means that Reagan single-handedly came up with this strategy and this was the only thing that brought the Soviet Union down?
Hmmmmmm.... how about not so simple?
maybe we need to add a little bit more complexity since we at least are trying to be intelligent -not intellectual:-D

[Светлана Гэмм]

Julia, I thought we already covered in great details "the complexicity of his strategy/ies" in many other topics..I just pointed out that many people on the left today who consider themselves intellectuals still refuse to admit his strategy worked..
but speaking about other strategies...the liberals including Obama has been very critical of Bush's strategy and his war on terror, in your opinion, has Obama's approach been successful (diplomacy and all the butt-kissing)?? Honestly??

[Гера Така]

Interestingly, the todays "intellectual" as the Progressives call themselves invision their world involving into something - the world we lived in - in 1970s... The time of Brezhnev's Развитой Социализм.
(N)
... and then some of the participants of these discussions (here) are surprised why stupid me (and alike) - are against their enlightened thinking!

[Светлана Гэмм]

Мне кажется, что среди интеллигенции/интеллектуалов очень многомалодушных и трусливых людей. Бога они обычно отвергают, но в поискахзащиты обращаются к идеям статизма.
Маша, interesting observation..Limbaugh's words - you take God out of equation, all you have is government..:-|
but what's more interesting is that all the great ideas of the intellectuals/elite regarding the improvement of the regular people's lives, they don't want to apply to themselves..just like our commies, they lived in a totally different system..when republicans offered an amendment for the members of Congress to enroll in the public option, what do all dems do?? (ch) they voted it down..hmm...why is it, if their ideas are supposed to be great for the regular people??

[Лина]

the liberals including Obama has been very critical of Bush's strategy and his war on terror
----------------------------------------------------------------------
they were critical of his lack of strategy

[Светлана Гэмм]

yeah, one more - members of Congress have an option to opt out of social security..and we don't..:-|

[Mike]

all federal and state employees who were a part of the federal pension system as of 1982 (or something like that) can opt out of social security. new members of congress cannot opt-out.

[Khramaya]

"
- "you take God out of equation, all you have is government."
-when I read , hear or see stuff like this, first I get seizures, and then I feel like immigrating again far, far away..... where should I go? Australia? New Zealand? is there any country in the world that will not shove G-d in our faces and just let us be? How about some degree of moderation as well - not calling all on the left spineless and all on the right -whatever people call them? - how about a little more gray and a little less black and white?
Or is it not intelligent any longer to see things in the gray zone?

[Светлана Гэмм]

Julia, I am sorry, but it's a little unintellectual of you to conclude that anyone was trying to shove anything down your throat..or you feel like it anytime someone mentions the word God? (ch) We are just analyzing, phylosophically talking about different peoples 'ideology and thinking, and the basis of it...so, from our perspective many (not all, of course) people who are not religious tend to look up for government for support and hope..remember Hope and Change(ch) ..others try to find strength within themselves and their faith..and you don't have to agree with it..it's just someone's perspective and observation..
Yes, it's true that conservatives along with our founders believe our rights and freedoms come from God, not government..because if it comes from government, the government can also take them away..so, it's all part of the phylosophy..

[Олег Сах]

Just wanted to remind some of you that Ayn Rand was an intellectual also. Of the highest mark, too.
This partisan labeling becomes annoying. Intellectuals are automatically commies, conservatives are automatically saints.

[Лина]

Yes, it's true that conservatives along with our founders believe our rights and freedoms come from God, not government..
-----------------------------------------------------------
the founding fathers are spinning in their graves... can God also take them away? when and how has he done that?

because if it comes from government, the government can also take them away..so, it's all part of the phylosophy..
---------------------------------------------------------------------
you don't seem to have a problem with the government taking away the rights and freedoms of those held at guantanamo bay... you take your kids' rights away when they misbehave, we lock up those that break laws... are you saying that we are not within our rights when we do that? how much jesus juicehave you hadtoday?

[Светлана Гэмм]

who is arguing that Ayn Rand was a great intellectual?? or that every side have intellectuals?? it has not been the point at all..the point was, if you read all the articles, that intellectuals have no responsibilities of their ideas, and many of their ideas have had very unpleasant and sometimes tragic consequnces, but for some unknown reason some or most of them tend to think they know better and have an authority to decide on many aspects of our lives..
and that's what made Rand great - she understood the consequences of it..

[Мария]

Sveta, nice answer to Julia ( I wish Julia becomes less afraid of the word "God" (ch) , if one does not believe in one, then why be afraid?)
My other observation about intellectuals - there are a lot of selfish and envious individuals among them. They crave fame and power.

[Лина]

My other observation about intellectuals - there are a lot of selfish and envious individuals among them. They crave fame and power.
---------------------------------------------------------------
except for Ayn Rand of course, and any other conservative intellectual

[Лина]

( I wish Julia becomes less afraid of the word "God" (ch) , if one does not believe in one, then why be afraid?)
------------------------------------------------------------------
did she use the word fear? its not God that sends chills down my spine, but rather his crazy worshippers

[Гера Така]

There is nothing wrong with Ayn Rand.
The funniest things - she becomes more and more famous because her predictions are coming true - because of our big and enlightened GOVERNMENT, which wants to be everywhere...

[Олег Сах]

The problem is that the word "intellectual" is on quick downward spiral to loose its original meaning and become a misinterpretation. Just like "liberal" has no connection with "liberty" anymore. I recall Bill O'Reilly using the word "intellectual think tank" with the same look on his face as he would have describing Bangalore public toilets.

[Светлана Гэмм]

here is another one - past performance doesn't guarantee future results..
justbecause I admire Ayn Rand and value her contributionS to the society,doesn't mean I have to agree with her on many other issues..and withher I have a choice which part of her philosophy to accept..when itbecomes on the "global" level, I might not have that choice..as long asall the intellectuals' ideas are not "shoved down our throats" assomething we must all embrace, because "the intellectuals" say so,under the name of saving humanity, it's all great..

[Светлана Гэмм]

Kindergarten clone, this is the last post of yours in my topic..I can't take anymore of this тупости anti-intellectualism :-D

[Mike]

я помню любимое ругательство пролетариата было "интеллигент" i guess history always repeats itself :)

[Светлана Гэмм]

Мишань, не волнуйся, тебя бы я никогда так не кликнула, и даже не подумала..;-) keep digesting those charts..:-)

[Khramaya]

Look, nobody is afraid of word God, as well as has nothing against practice of any religion whatsoever. Go ahead, knock yourself out.
Nobody should care. The problem is - there is too much CARING about it going around in this country. Politics and religion should not mix. And they were INTENDED not to mix in this country. Religion and all the matters that have to do with God should be personal, private matters. And ,honestly, haven't we all seen enough how those folks who preach to others then cry about their "sins" o national TV ,making total fools of themselves?
The reason I want religious practice and politics separated because , other then hypocrisy and waste of time on rhetoric , nothing good comes out of this "marriage".
Show me if I'm wrong - with facts only, please.

[Мария]

The problem is - there is too much CARING about it going around in this country. Politics and religion should not mix.
People care about it because they see their religious rights are beings impinged. Intellectuals slowly, piece by piece, try to take away religious freedoms. The very foundation of this country.
Politics and religion should not mix, but when progressives come with their aggressive anti-religious agenda masked under "intellectualism" and "science", somebody has to stand up to this bullying.
My favorite intellectual of all times in modern history is William Buckeley Jr.
He is a proof that one can be a first class intellectual while preserving deep religious faith, and doing great good to the society.

[Khramaya]

give us some references as to how religious rights are being impinged. Factual proofs.
There is a church, a synagogue, or a mosque on every corner.
See, the difference is not factual, it is purely psychological.
Conservatives see something taken away from them, while liberals see something imposed over them. And liberals feel bullied too. Less now, but under Bush it was pretty bad.

[Гера Така]

Julia,
Do you mean you want to see a list of law suits brought by "secular progressives" against the issues related to religious people, schools, churches, synagogues, etc... starting with war on Christmas, trying to prohibit the public displays of minoras, etc...?????
the list will be very long, but I have other things to do.

[Khramaya]

Maria wrote "people see their religious rights impinged".
I would like to see factual evidence that conservatives religious rights are impinged.
Btw, all those lawsuits you are mentioning that came from the "left" I personally consider bogus. Except for teaching intelligent design in schools - that drove me crazy, I would sue for this too if that was my kids school.

[Светлана Гэмм]

Julia,
1. who are your favorite intellectuals, American or not?
2. what ideas/work of theirs you admire the most and have turned out to be great with time?
3. your personal take why America has never created such extreme movements as communism, Nazism (remember Germany was a democracy and a very enlightened, intellectual nation), fascism, committed Holocaust or other atrocities as a nation (not early immigrants)?

[Khramaya]

no answers to my question, ha?
more questions from Sveta instead...
How do conservative religious feel their religious freedoms are stepped on? - that is what I keep asking...
please, give me some info so I will at least start to understand where you guys are coming from///

[Светлана Гэмм]

Julia, you can continue in your topic questions about religion, there are many examples..I was just more interested in talking about intellectuals and the effect of their ideas on society..do you have answers for me??
i have more questions..too..(ch)

[Светлана Гэмм]

***********.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/id/16325.htm
here some facts about the disarmament efforts in the World prior WWII.."unsubstantiated facts"...(ch)
still no answers on favorites..:-(
I provided "the evidence"..(ch)

[Khramaya]

Maria said:
"People care about it because they see their religious rights are beingsimpinged. Intellectuals slowly, piece by piece, try to take awayreligious freedoms."
-
- as I suspected, there is not a single shred of any evidence of this... nothing at all.(ch) , not even one "piece be piece"...
great, let's move on to intellectuals:-D ....
maybe Maria will still get some stuff on this...

[Светлана Гэмм]

Julia, I posted it in your topic..it has about ten different examples..but since you insist here is one more..
***********.personalliberty.com/news/school-singled-out-for-alleged-attack-on-religious-freedom-19524493/
I thought intellectuals check their own topic for new posts and have other favorite intellectuals they can, at least, respect and prove they have been right..(ch)

[Khramaya]

here is an example of a very interesting , if you will, intellectual magazine:
***********.edge.org/
as you might see, it is largly apolitical... mostly focuses on culture, science and the nature of consciousness.
I am a big fan of Steven Pinker these days...
Ne is primarily a linguist and cognitive scientist.

[Светлана Гэмм]

ok, I will it move here too..just to make sure you finally see it (ch)
***********.examiner.com/x-12712-Northern-KY-Spirituality-Examiner~y2009m7d31-Attack-on-religious-freedom-in-America

[Khramaya]

Oh, I see, Sveta...I will look there, thanks... I was just reading these posts for sequence

[Светлана Гэмм]

Julia, here is his claim to fame
Pinker is most famous for his work — popularized in The Language Instinct (1994) — on how children acquire language, and for his popularization of Noam Chomsky's work on language as an innate faculty of mind. Pinker has suggested an evolutionary mental module for language, although this idea remains controversial. In The Language Instinct,Pinker argues that humans are born with an innate capacity forlanguage. In addition, he deals sympathetically with the claim that allhuman language shows evidence of a universal grammar. AdditionallyPinker argues that many other human mental faculties are adaptive (and is an ally of Daniel Dennett and Richard Dawkins in many evolutionary disputes).
popularization of Choamsky is "admirable" (ch) , but can you describe in your own words the breakthrough he was able to establish?? was he a pioneer of any sort?

[Светлана Гэмм]

can't agree more..:-) but there is so many like him in the academia :-(
what do you think about the notion that today there is a lot anti-wisdom in the intellectual circles...studies, articles, opinions, but wisdom, proven experienced, all are not embraced among the modern intellectuals..

[Светлана Гэмм]

here is another legacy of the progressive era..and it takes another intellectual to admit what took place and who was behind the ideas..
***********.princeton.edu/~tleonard/papers/retrospectives.pdf
Retrospectives
Eugenics and Economics in the
Progressive Era

[Светлана Гэмм]

The progressives’ somewhat antidemocratic impulses also led them tobelieve that academic experts were both sufficient and necessary forthe task of wise public administration, because they could and wouldsuspend their own interests to transcend the messy business of democratic politics. As one widely readeugenics[G]overnment and social control are in the hands of expertpoliticians who have power, instead of expert technologists who havewisdom. There should be technologists in control of every field of human need and desire” (asquoted from Albert Wiggam’s New Decalogue 1923, in Ludmerer, 1972, pp.16–17). The case for technocratic governance was put baldly by Irving Fisher (1907, p. 20):“The world consists of two classes—the educated and the ignorant—and itis essential for progress that the former should be allowed to dominatethe latter...
sounds familiar?? :-)

[Khramaya]

"what do you think about the notion that today there is a lotanti-wisdom in the intellectual circles...studies, articles, opinions,but wisdom, proven experienced, all are not embraced among the modernintellectuals."
- Sveta, I have no idea how you came up to this conclusion...
How many academic intellectuals do you hang out with?
I have fairly limited experience as well, only my son is in academia, one of my husband's uncles is physics professor, one of his tennis buddies is philosophy professor, well, I know a bunch of medicine academics, hang out with them a lot.
So - this group is as diverse as any.... there are all kinds, boring and eccentric, ultra-whatever, slightly more to the left, some with libertarian trends...Recently went to a lecture oninternational trade in one of our local Universities - speakers trends were rather to the Right, protectionists....
The point is - it is hardly fair to paint ALL academia the way you do

[Светлана Гэмм]

The point is - it is hardly fair to paint ALL academia the way you do
Julia, com'n, you have to know that, since it's a well-known fact that more than 90% of the humanity and social-science professor are ultra-liberal..moreover, there is a trend to disenfranchise the students with different views as long as their fellow professors..if you need proof, I will cite you many polls and articles on the issue..and to do it is very unintellectual from my point view, because it gives birth to group thinking as opposed to thinking people where different opinions are introduced and make you explore all different sides..
and when students are exposed in school to this kind of environment (where decent is not welcome), what do you think it does to their desire to pursue careers in those fields??

[Khramaya]

hmmmm..... let's see.
My kids are grown.
I watched their classmates go to Yale, NYU, Cornell, Harvard, MIT, Stamford, UPenn, etc..etc... My kids went to Wellseley and Caltech for undergrad. Let's see, now... one of their friends works at Amazon, one at Microsoft, one at some hegde fund, one at a law firm in NY, many are in medschools and PhD programs, a couple got some startup companies. Only one is a "tree-hugger" works for some environmental agency, but is going to open a restaurant next year, and one is in a rabbinical school ( my daughter's best friend, and my favorite "adoptive" daughter). Oh, yea, one guy who was the most liberal in college, now is a croupier in Vegas. Are most of them liberally minded? - Yes, but they are all young, 25-25 y.o... and I am sure will go into a 50-50 split in the future.
So, what I am trying to say - even those who got liberal education change with life... totally expected and nothing to fear

[Светлана Гэмм]

are your kids conservative? (ch)
it's not what I was saying at all - that conservatives are prevented from getting an education..they are, however, discouraged from expressing their views in many cases in the mostly liberal college environment, and it also discourages many students with conservative views from wanting to work in the academia and pursue careers where liberals dominate..

[Khramaya]

where did I say that conserv. are prevented from getting an education? anyone can get an education, just show your grades and effort.
What I am saying is that young people tend to be more liberally minded just because they are young. Liberal idealism appeals to youth more then conservative idealism. When people age, their value systems develop and shift their idealism as well. This is just a natural evolution of ideals, when you are young, you tend to be more outward-goodness oriented, when people age - it shifts for many , and there is nothing wrong with it.
None of those value systems is inherently wrong, they both have their strong merits.
And there is always place for all kinds of academics.
I remember meeting two of my daughter's college professors and ( this is not on topic , just an example) and they were arguing about theories of learned optimism vs realistic pessimism. They both taught in her college, totally different styles.

[Светлана Гэмм]

totally agree that that..especially with the point that life very often changes people's views - which kinda proves my point that conservative views are more realistic because they come not from theories, but from something that's proven to work or not..
and it also proves my point that if the majority of academia is liberal, their views are mostly theoretical that a lot of times never worked, but because many intellectuals don't like to be challenged, they don't tolerate dissent...and punish their (some) students from not following the indoctrination..
Julia, I was in college..I didn't have set political views back then, but now remembering some of the things my professors were saying, believe me - they were not conservative (ch) , and I was not even a social science major...(ch)

[Мария]

Ladies, read this - it fits well with this discussion
***********.nytimes.com/2010/01/18/arts/18liberal.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

[Khramaya]

or, rather, how much cynicism we are willing to mix into our realism and in what realms.(ch)
And , how healthy this is - individually and socially.

[Альберт Гам]

Realism, socialism, capitalism.. it is all too boring...
Lets talk about wild sex with bi sexual lesbians...

[Альберт Гам]

You are wrong - there are two types of lesbians - strait and bi.. Bi will not sleep with the guy.
I had very positive experience with bi and looking forward to hear from others.

[Светлана Гэмм]

I could never be a lesbian...dealing with other females...hmm..not a female job at all..we have, you, guys, for that..:-D

[Альберт Гам]

But Svet, how do you know if you never tried??? Life is short you should try it ASAP...

[Альберт Гам]

Well, I am doing my best ;-)
It is a lot of fun to be with two in he same time...

[Светлана Гэмм]

well, people usually experiment in college..you know in that evil liberal environment (H) my school was too tough, not enough time to look for more than one...had hardly enough time to get one..:-)
how does a man know he is not gay?? (dt)

[Светлана Гэмм]

Albert, it's ok - you don't have to tell us everything..;-) I was just following your logic..:-) (v)

[Альберт Гам]

Not a problem, youc an ask anything my dear...
I missed college fun in USA - studied in Russia... So I guess I missed my share of experimentation, but since I am a scientist, I am on the right path to continue my research...

[Альберт Гам]

Well, I do not see the reason to to have a full list... have a nice afternoon as well.

[Светлана Гэмм]

Albert, now you know what I was talking about..you don't have to always try it to know..;-) (X)

[Альберт Гам]

Why not? If you imply about men homosexuality, I can't really say that I try it out with the guy, but I think I have some general idea about it. Somehow I was never attracted to one and neither someone was attracted to me...
I probably would if I would feel like that.. I guess I didn;t meet the right guy :-D

[Альберт Гам]

I guess we are locked in, but per my experience with bi-girls, i really think it is more fun...

[Светлана Гэмм]

well, for the purpose of this topic YOUR experience is not what matters..what matters is what science says :-) you have to provide some stats..

[Альберт Гам]

Well, I was hoping to hear it from you... You went to US college, was exposed to all of it sororities and etc... How do I know?

[Светлана Гэмм]

my story is not as fun as you might think..it's actually a very sad story..:'( I actually had to study very hard to go though the school, AND met my boyfriend (who is my husband now) the frist semester in school..so I missed all the fun!! :-@ :-@
:-D :-D

[Альберт Гам]

well, I wouldn't really call it a sad story, but you for sure missed some sisters down there...
Wish I can go back in time and study here... In 60s...

[Светлана Гэмм]

:-D :-D I am watching the video and imaging Albert in place of that guy.....................(H) (H) (H)

[Альберт Гам]

Well, not sure who are the Rommi/Michell combination out of three of them, but two girls are very sexy... Sorry to inform you - they were not included in the heli package... I would order as an option, but I guess wasn;t available at the time due to prior engagements...

[Светлана Гэмм]

yeah, yeah, I forgot we are all intellectuals now..gotto be serious (sr)
I guess porn is out of the question (dt) (H)

[Альберт Гам]

i helped to liqvidate assets of Rainbow Records few years back, got about 2000 or so of their adult DVDs...

[Альберт Гам]

yep... Interesting thing by the way - all gay DVDs were sold much faster and for higher value than strait ones... Go figure...

[Светлана Гэмм]

I have been suspicious for a long time it's where you get your 'answers' from..:-D

[Мария]

Albert, what's so surprising about the DVD selection? Forgot where you live?:-$

[Мария]

Народ, кто-нибудь читал про это исследование?
Статья из NYT.

Professor Is a Label That Leans to the Left
By PATRICIA COHEN
Published: January 17, 2010
The overwhelmingly liberal tilt of university professors has been explained by everything from outright bias to higher I.Q. scores. Now new research suggests that critics may have been asking the wrong question. Instead of looking at why most professors are liberal, they should ask why so many liberals — and so few conservatives — want to be professors.
A pair of sociologists think they may have an answer: typecasting. Conjure up the classic image of a humanities or social sciences professor, the fields where the imbalance is greatest: tweed jacket, pipe, nerdy, longwinded, secular — and liberal. Even though that may be an outdated stereotype, it influences younger people’s ideas about what they want to be when they grow up.

[Гера Така]

Who cannot do - teach!
And then:

- they also join the Teacher's Union
-they never get paid based on merit
- they never have to face a direct opposition
- the more they preach the more they believe in themselves and geta lot of unsubstantiated self respect

This ends up with the self proclaimed dogmas...(N)

Cheers...(D)(D)(D)

[Светлана Гэмм]

********pajamasmedia.com/eddriscoll/2009/11/29/intellectuals-cannot-operate-at-room-temperature/

[Мария]

"There’s something Eric Hoffer said: “Intellectuals cannot operate atroom temperature.” There always has to be a crisis–some terrible reasonwhy their superior wisdom and virtue must be imposed on the unthinkingmasses. It doesn’t matter what the crisis is..."
So true.

[Алексей Пэтк]

We don’t need no education
We don’t need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the class room
Teachers leave those kids alone

[Мария]

Liberal Occupations
Ithink I noticed something about liberal jobs choices: Liberals tend todominate jobs like actor, journalist, and college professors, and onething about all those jobs is there isn’t a real objective way tomeasure whether you’re doing well or not. For a liberal, there isnothing more important than feeling you are smart, and thus it helps tohave a job where you can feel smart and there is no objective measureto tell you otherwise. This is true of college professor especially,where a big part of it is just having everybody think you sound smart —especially in the useless “studies” type subjects.
I wish I could be like that in engineering. I’d just babble on aboutall these neat engineering ideas but never actually make anything thatworks. I like babbling. I wonder if I was a liberal in another life…

From IMAO ( In My Arrogant Opinion)blog by Frank J.(H)

[Лина]

actor, journalist, and college professors, and onething about all those jobs is there isn’t a real objective way tomeasure whether you’re doing well or not.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would disagree...

[Алексей Пэтк]

and college professors, and one thing about all those jobs is there isn’t a real objective way to measure whether you’re doing well or not.
Hmm... what do you think professors do? Seriously, how do you imagine yourself that job? Especially those in exact sciences and engineering?
BTW, all of my engineering friends and relatives (who work for a private sector) are liberals. Way more more liberal than I am...

[Mike]

BTW, all of my engineering friends and relatives (whowork for a private sector) are liberals. Way more more liberal than Iam...

you have a strange bunch of friends. Statistically most of us are not liberal.. in fact i would say among engineers i know ( and that even in a liberal mecca known as NYC ) probably less then 20% would consider themselves liberal.

[Шурик Кай]

Most of my coworkers and people with whom I associate with are liberal and a large % of them are software engineers. In addition
in my view the techs do much better under Democrats than Republicans. You can go back and see in the chart, using any statistical data. I consider myself progressive liberal.

[Алексей Пэт]

you have a strange bunch of friends.
:-) I have a good friend and a neighbor who is very conservative -- and there is probably one guy in my wife's company who's conservative (in her building). There could be others.. :-)
Thing is, even my most conservative friends are willing to have a good discussion and not talk in slogans or call names... maybe there are not true conservatives? :-)

[Шурик Кайц]

Thing is, even my most conservative friends are willing to have a good discussion and not talk in slogans
***
excellent point! It takes closer conservative, who's extended family is collecting "welfare" to call names! I see this all the time. They bring their grand parents put them in subsidized housing, collecting social security etc.. But they become ultra conservative when time comes to pay taxes ;)

[Mike]

Thing is, even my most conservative friends are willing to have a good discussion and not talk in slogans
I would say the same about my liberal friends :).
Talking in slogans is mostly reserved for internet and tv

[Светлана Гэмм]

I don't have liberal friends at all :'( kinda by choice .. enough to have them as co-workers, makes life work interesting .. (ch)

[Mike]

political leanings of my friends don't affect our friendship.. :) although i only have 1 friend who voted for Obama and we do make fun of him on a regular basis..

[Шурик Кайц]

The only thing I don't like about Obama is his stand on Iran and I don't like the changes in our relationship with Israel. Other than that I agree with most everything else and I didn't even vote for him!

[Шурик Кайцэ]

political leanings of my friends don't affect our friendship.
**
that shows intelligence!

[Светлана Гэмм]

political leanings of my friends don't affect our friendship..
it's not only about how people vote .. eventhough not always true, I find that people's mindset/values are often different .. I did have liberal friends from San Fran (they were my friends from the old country).. once they came over for a 10 day vacation to my house, it was the last time we spoke .. the attitude was the one shown in Berkley students - vacation is a right, thus should be paid for and serviced by the government hosts .. :-)
on topic - all the critique of the intellectuals is done by other intellectuals .. so it's not like ignorant people don't them, it's the people who are capable of analysis see how absurd and sometimes dangerous their many ideas have been ..

[Алексей Пэт]

it's the people who are capable of analysis see how absurd and sometimes dangerous their many ideas have been ..
********en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_book_burnings

[Светлана Гэмм]

actor, journalist, and college professors, and onethingabout all those jobs is there isn’t a real objective way tomeasurewhether you’re doing well or not.
Маша, that's a good point ... also a lot of people in the above mentioned professions, feel like they do work for the sake of humanity, have a superior perception of what they do, often full of themselves, sometimes scew the truth to support their worldviews..
once I heard a segment on Hollywood elites and the kind of people they are in everyday live - when we see their interviews, hear about their contributions to humanity, donations, etc..we get a perception they are great humanitarians, put their fame to good use, care about the unfortunate in this world..people who work with them and know them personally have told completely different accounts - how nasty and mean they are to others in their everyday lives...I bet the same can be said about many intellectuals..(ch)

[Шурик Кайц]

Алексей,
Никогда не спорьте с дураком, он опустит вас до своего уровня и победит вас на своей территории!!!!!
Я вижу с кем имею дело!

[Khramaya]

"vacation is a right,".....
interesting, we had very similar situation with our ex-friends who happen to be very conservative. They stayed with us ,never contributed anything, didn't even do the dishes once...and then continued the same line of behavior for a number of years....I got sick of being used and we are not friends anymore. Guess people who are "users" happen in any camp

[Светлана Гэмм]

Никогда не спорьте с дураком, он опустит вас до своего уровня и победит вас на своей территории!!!!!
that's exactly what you've been doing in every discussion..;-)

[Шурик Кайцэ]

that's exactly what you've been doing in every discussion
***
I see ;) and I completely agree with you!

[Мария]

Никогда не спорьте с дураком, он опустит вас до своего уровня и победит вас на своей территории!!!!!
Вот именно поэтому мы с вами и не спорим, дорогой Шурик Алинский. :-D

[Шурик Кайц]

Мария,
судя по всем вашим дискуссиям
вы образованная и интеллигентная
женщина зачем мне с вами спорить?
Ведь вы мне не навязываете моё мнение
и за кого я должен голосавать?

[Мария]

what do you think professors do? Seriously, how do youimagine yourself that job? Especially those in exact sciences andengineering?
They teach students, and indoctrinate them subliminally in their liberal ideas. The very fact that they decided to pursue a professorship comes from the fact that they are liberal first. There was an amusing study that showed that liberally minded people tend to want to be professors. So, they teach their chemistry courses, and throw in their liberal attitudes in between the formulas. I went to universities here, I saw it. The only conservative professor in my latest school ( who was the best infectious disease lecturer and the best preceptor), eventually left the school and went to work for a pharmaceutical industry.
And on a personal note, my significant other is a professor ( conservative:-D ) - a minority.

[Мария]

We make bonfires on our street on a weekly basis. We especially love to burn encyclopedia Britannica ( very high BTU)(H)

[Мария]

Jockes aside, the new danger to the knowledge and the society is the digital editing of the original textbooks. For example, it would provide an easy tool to eliminate from history textbooks references to Founding Fathers, Natural Law etc.and other information that creates obstacles for liberal progressives to advance their agenda. There are many other ares, where digital editing without consent of the original author will be handy ( e.g. economic textbooks)
Just watch for it. :-|

[Алексей Пэтк]

digital editing of the original textbooks
Hmm... aren't those books copyrighted? As far as I know, that should prevent any sort of editing w/out consent of the author or the publishing house (whoever owns the copyright)...

[Светлана Гэмм]

Why Do Intellectuals Oppose Capitalism?***********.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/cpr-20n1-1.html
good analysis about modern intellectuals..why they feel the way they do toward the rest of society - entitlement and feeling superior..
eventhough the article is kinda old, still true..

[Светлана Гэмм]

However, even those intellectuals who do not mix socially are similarly resentful, while merely mixing is not enough--the sports and dancing instructors who cater to the rich and have affairs with them are not noticeably anti-capitalist.Why then do contemporary intellectuals feel entitled to the highest rewards their society has to offer and resentful when they do not receive this?

[Светлана Гэмм]

Intellectuals feel they are the most valuable people, the ones with the highest merit, and that society should reward people in accordance with their value and merit. But a capitalist society does not satisfy the principle of distribution "to each according to his merit or value." Apart from the gifts, inheritances, and gambling winnings that occur in a free society, the market distributes to those who satisfy the perceived market-expressed demands of others, and how much it so distributes depends on how much is demanded and how great the alternative supply is. Unsuccessful businessmen and workers do not have the same animus against the capitalist system as do the wordsmith intellectuals. Only the sense of unrecognized superiority, of entitlement betrayed, produces that animus.

[Мария]

Two future intellectuals from UC Berkely talk about the 32% tuition hike. ( unaware that the cuts to UC system happened because the public labor unions must have their luxurious pension packages).
********tinyurl.com/yjlfdux

[Мария]

Света, ролик , который исчез вместе с кофейной гущей, вот здесь:
********tinyurl.com/yjlfdux
(H)

[Светлана Гэмм]

пасиб (H) он мне оч нравится :-$ как токо наши интеллектуалы опять нести начнут, я их сразу буду отправлять к оригиналу..:-)