(md) (md) (md)
- are much better then all the words they deserve - those are pretty much unprintable(fr)

really? what exactly do they deserve, I wonder?? *-) I mean those people are out of power, just exercising the right of freedom of speech, compared to hundreds of corrupt politicians running the country right now who are real scumbags..:-S
speaking of intelligent conversation - I asked a question about our kids well being compared to the times when the government didn't have a "role" in ensuring every kid had opportunities.. no answer followed, and yet again the names of Palin and Beck were revoked.. I am starting to think they are super-intellectuals compared to the people playing them on TV pretending to be on forum.. *-)

speaking of intelligent conversation - I asked a question about our kids well being compared to the times when the government didn't have a "role" in ensuring every kid had opportunities.. no answer followed, and yet again the names of Palin and Beck were revoked
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first of all, Glenn Beck is a nut job. it has nothing to do with whether I agree with him or not, the man is just cuckoo for cocoa puffs. Palin is a little out there too... and is pretty much an air head...
second, the last question I recall you asking was about Obama's accomplishments. and as for our children's well being and government involvement, something about child labor laws comes to mind (just off the top of my head).

lastly, you have this really rude and quite frankly annoying tendency of calling people stupid and scoffing at their achievements. now I know we all make mistakes, and English is not ourfirst language... but, when you're minimizing someone's accomplishments and ridiculing the "comlex thinking" of those whose opinion differs from yours, it would really help if you yourselfavoided making countless mistakes in the process.

and here's a little something for you to ponder:
The propensity to predictably misjudge one's own intelligence was first noted by <FONT color=#ba0000>C. L. Downing
who conducted the first cross cultural studies on perceived intelligence. His studies also evidenced that the ability to accurately estimate others' intelligence was proportional to one's own intelligence. This means that the lower the IQ of an individual, the less capable they are of appreciating and accurately appraising others' intelligence. Therefore individuals with a lower IQ are more likely to rate themselves as more intelligent than those around them.

Obama is pretty much a caricature, an ideologue.. there is no thinking in him.. just following the agenda-ideology..
Very much so. Good point, Sveta(Y)
Особенно, когда он потрясает своим указательным пальцем с трибуны(H)
BTW, nobody still can find any records of what Obama did during his Harward Law Review time. Прошлое покрыто мраком у этого деятеля.

This means that the lower the IQ of an individual, the less capable they are of appreciating and accurately appraising others' intelligence. Therefore individuals with a lower IQ are more likely to rate themselves as more intelligent than those around them.
wow! I now know why the left has this tendency to accuse everyone on the right of being stupid.. I mean, afterall to be on the left is to subscribe and support policies that have failed everywhere else in the world.. you are either a blind ideologue or/and there is something wrong with your IQ..(ch)

I now know why the left has this tendency to accuse everyone on the right of being stupid
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except that, unfortunately, the tendency is yours. *-)

wow! I now know why the left has this tendency to accuse everyone onthe right of being stupid.. I mean, afterall to be on the left is tosubscribe and support policies that have failed everywhere else in theworld.. you are either a blind ideologue or/and there is somethingwrong with your IQ..
Thank you, Sveta. You just nailed it.(ch)

"support policies that have failed everywhere else in the world"
I would like some REAL EVIDENCE of how, for example single payer healthcare systems failed in many European countries.
From what we know they are doing very well.

Julia, open the healthcare topic - it has tons of evidence - lower cancer cure rates, I mean much lower, longer waits for surgeries and specialists' care, rationing of care (certain treatments are not even available in some European countries and Canada), to name the few..

" January 8, 2008, Bethesda, MD—The United States places last among 19 countries when it comes to deaths that could have been prevented by access to timely and effective health care, according to new research supported by The Commonwealth Fund and published in the January/February issue of Health Affairs. While other nations dramatically improved these rates between 1997–98 and 2002–03, the U.S. improved only slightly."
***********.commonwealthfund.org/Content/News/News-Releases/2008/Jan/New-Study--U-S--Ranks-Last-Among-Other-Industrialized-Nations-on-Preventable-Deaths.aspx

When you call the French equivalent of 911, a doctor answers the phone, and if you truly have an emergency, they dispatch an entire medical team, including a doctor, to your house, apartment, hotel room, wherever you happen to be. They can diagnose you, begin treatment, decide which hospital is best for your particular problem, and have any needed specialists waiting for you at the hospital when the ambulance gets you there.
Oh, and it costs less than $200 [out of pocket] to have a baby. Two babies actually. Twins. By caesarian. With 9 days stay in the hospital afterwards.


***********.correntewire.com/france_you_dont_go_emergency_room_emergency_room_c omes_you

Julia, I am waiting for your comment for this posted non-sense about France's sytem of a doctor answering the phone and the cost of delivery being only 200 dollars.. how realistic is it in your view?? and how will the primary-care doctors manage to do it with the additional 15% work load.. btw, they all have "tort reform" and capped damages in Europe.. how can you expect to save money in this country when doctors are being scared of being sued and practice defensive medicine??
and btw, what do you think of the Europe's unemployment rate and compared to ours? any idea what contributes to such disparity?

my friend just had a baby, and it costs them $20 co-pay + $400 upgrade to a private suite in the hospital..

are you saying we have pretty good and affordable healthcare here too?? nooooooooo, it can't be....(ch)

my friend just had a baby, and it costs them $20 co-pay + $400 upgrade to a private suite in the hospital..
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how much without insurance?
how much does the insurance policy cost?
and what did it cost the insurance company?

My whopping $32 emergency room visit in the land of socialized medicine
***********.janisian.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8384

he does not know how much it costs to the insurance company...
he only knows how much it costs to him...
i had a minor shoulder surgery a month ago, and also paid a whopping $20.

oh, also i have a story - my sister in in Massachusetts ( and i will be moving there this summer as well )...
she got sick a few days ago and tried to get an appointment with an MD.
when she called a bunch an average wait time was in MONTHs..
Anyway, ended up going to some urgent care clinic where she could not even see an MD, a dumbass NP told her she had allergies..
Overall miserable experience..
Anyway, she was supposed to fly to CO, and did so anyway, with being sick and all.
There she was able to get an MD appointment the next day..
I hope we will not have to deal with MA style HC any time soon :(

he does not know how much it costs to the insurance company...
he only knows how much it costs to him...
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how much he paid out of pocket is not the same as the cost. if he had to buy his own insurance policy, that too would be factored into the cost.
.
as for waiting to see a doctor, if you have a physician that you regularly go to, they usually see you right away. another reason why access to preventive care is so important.

France clearly is the new land of opportunity. :-)
Unemployment rate 20%, Sarkozi about to ban burkas. The percentage of muslim population is exploding. I wonder, how much longer will medical doctors be able to answer all the emergency phone calls ( what a waste of doctor's time, man(md) )?

Romney should publicly apologize for his "reform" in MA and use it as an example why it wouldn't work across the country.. his only defense that I agree with is that was done at the state level...
********healthcare-economist.com/2008/04/14/health-care-around-the-world-france/
this is a fairly balance article about the french healthcare system.. several of points..
1. insurance industries are loosely regulated, whereas ours will be even more regulated in the future..
2. doctors are still free to set up their fees..
3. France is running a huge deficit of the system..right now..
4. Everyone pays the same percentage (not even amount, which will not happen here)..
5. Everyone there has a supplemental coverage anyway - so the true cost is more than 13% of your income..
6. I still don't see why it has to run through the government as opposed to just private market
***********.oecd.org/dataoecd/61/52/43707170.pdf
this is the employment picture in France..

you pay taxes or you pay for insurance or your employer pays for your insurance.. it's all the same to me...

except is not exactly the same.. you definitely have more choices , more say, when it's not done through the government (taxes)... that's why I believe it will be repealed (58% support it now, up from 54%).. people can be mad all they want at the insurance companies, but majority still don't want the government to run it, don't want to feel like they are welfare recipients..

Svetlana, i mean the same as the money coming out of my pocket one way or another..

Wow, 13% is a lot of money. So, if a family makes $100,000 a year, they will pay for their "free" healthcare $13,000. Wonderful.(md) ( Я думаю, что этот символ в данном случае уместен:-D )

actually I am looking at other sources.. and many say it's around 20% of your income.. and covers around 70% of the cost.. plus the employer pays for it separately too..so, if overall they say healthcare in France costs less than in the US, they make way less money than people in US..
another thing I don't get - they say their doctors make around 40K euros.. I can't imagine doctors here making this little.. something is not right.. no one will spend this many years on their education and not be able to provide reasonable income for their families..

Doctors are paid little in Europe. Do the best and the the brightest go to medicine there? Does not make any sense to study for so many years , and then be paid like an office clerk with no education.
Or maybe office clerks get paid a lot less than 40K.
There was a theme in another group about wonderful life in Sweden -a guy posted an article about how great it is for women in Sweden because their husbands stay at home with kids while woman go to work(:-S ). But the missed point of the article was that the women there make so little money -$ 20K on average, and have to pay twice as much compared to here for basically anything at the stores.

Why work when I can get ?42,000 in benefits a year AND drive a Mercedes?
By Paul Sims

From UK
The Davey family's ?815-a-week state handouts pay for a four-bedroom home, top-of-the-range mod cons and two vehicles including a Mercedes people carrier.
Father-of-seven Peter gave up work because he could make more living on benefits.
Yet he and his wife Claire are still not happy with their lot.
With an eighth child on the way, they are demanding a bigger house, courtesy of the taxpayer.:-)
Read more:
***********.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1265508/Peter-Davey-gets-42-000-benefits-year-drives-Mercedes.html#ixzz0l2pSb5Ed

"The problem with Socialism is that at some point you run out of other people's money" -- Margaret Thatcher

The Davey family's ?815-a-week state handouts pay for a four-bedroom home, top-of-the-range mod cons and two vehicles including a Mercedes people carrier.
Hmm... with seven kids? Seriously? They must be feeding off the Sun light and go around naked -- which also should help with diapers... Was this article posted on April 1st?

Does not make any sense to study for so many years , and then be paid like an office clerk with no education.
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it boggles the mind how someone could be motivated by something other than monetary gain.

the median household income in UK is 39K pounds.. this guy gets 45K tax free!!.. I am sure his family also gets something equivalent of foodstamps here ...
there was a very nice country where doctors and janitors were making a similar amount of money.. too bad people don't get how wrong it is..

nobody is saying that doctors shouldn't be well compensated for their years of training... but the fees for their services shouldn't be so exorbitant as to preclude access to vital medical care.
.
and as for French doctors
"French doctors don't have to pay back their crushing student loans because medical school is paid for by the state, and malpractice insurance premiums are a tiny fraction of the $55,000 a year and up that many U.S. doctors pay. "
Additionally, "the French government pays two-thirds of the social security tax for most French physicians—a tax that's typically 40% of income."

Obama gains popularity (CNN poll): ********i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/04/13/rel7d.pdf

OMG, if this doesn't sound like the Soviet Union, I don't know what does..(sr) - you will receive free education provided by the "good, fair" government, and then we will determine what you can make in exchange of other favors.. this doesn't sound like a free country to me.. people who want to have a safety net and don't do much, go to Europe, people who want to succeed, work extra hard, come here.. I am sure Americansdoctors are much more productive than European, just like the rest of the American population.. no doctor in their right mind will put in so much extra-hours like they do in the US for this kind of "salary".. and we, the public, will suffer as a result..:-|

and we, the public, will suffer as a result..:-|
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again, this is the result of our system versus "theirs":
" January 8, 2008, Bethesda, MD—The United States places last among 19 countries when it comes to deaths that could have been prevented by access to timely and effective health care, according to new research supported by The Commonwealth Fund and published in the January/February issue of Health Affairs. While other nations dramatically improved these rates between 1997–98 and 2002–03, the U.S. improved only slightly."
***********.commonwealthfund.org/Content/News/News-Releases/2008/Jan/New-Study--U-S--Ranks-Last-Among-Other-Industrialized-Nations-on-Preventable-Deaths.aspx

if we are 19 now (which I doubt), wait till we have bigger shortage of doctors and less productive doctors.. I can post tons of european links listing numerous problems in their systems.. especially now.. with the economy sinking.. and again, they all have fixed legal systems that save them money and changes practice of medicine..

TOMORROW, 7PM.
Tea Party in NYC!!! By main Post Office building on W31st st. and 8th Ave. I am going !!!
Liberal drones (and you know who you are) stay home and watch MSLSD.(md) (md) (md) (md)