and by the way, I seem to remember we changed topics from politics to women in here, what happend to that.

Юля.. Everything seems different in Texas...
Here, in NY, in any and every hospital they will provide ALL NECESSARY TREATMENT INCLUDING SURGERY to any person. Regardless of the type of insurance, Even in the case of no insurance. And than they (hospital) will bill the patient. Who can pay his bill as much as... 20 dollars per months... as long as it takes...

So don't tell us your scary stories.....

"But in Texas, folk said ,38 calibr will help anyway"

Yeap. In case of "no insurance". ;)

in case "no insurance" you have to use tambourine play technique .

Three initial impacts are done in order to draw the attention of public to the executor. <br />

In case of no insurance, they will send you bills to the rest of yor life. No penalties. Just your credit history will be bad. But if people do not have money, they do not care about credit history too much. But that is worst case scenario, Usuallly they just write off that expences.

If you have private medicine in your country - you can at least sue the malpractice perpetrators. In the case of the fascistic omnipresent state, you cannot. When the devastated widow tried to just have some answers, some Soviet Julia told her to "shut up" - and she died in frustration the same day. In a good private clinic, nobody would have employed guys who narrow vessel channels instead of widening them.
Julia-at-charge of any socialist unit would do whatever it takes to justify her monstrous deity: socialist medicine, “economics”, education, etc. And that is why they oppressed dissidents - and they do in most pro communist students campuses here. Take Columbia Un for example.

MIsha, stop waisting time, she is not even a Democrat she is Communist. Let's close out this topic. Its a waist of time

Unlike you, Roma, I confronted her with my personal knowledge about her lovely communist "healthcare" when a leading rocket science engineer was left to die.

First. Hello everyone, new here....loving the group.
Second. Roman, I second your proposal.... (D) here to all the lovely ladies here.
Third. On the topic of insurance. Let's not forget, that when one buys insurance, they do not buy an all inclusive care that covers everything. It is an insurance policy that guaranties payment under goverened by the policy. Read carefully what is covered. Sometimes you are better of refusing what they offer at work and get yourself a different plan on your own.
Julia, if what you described happened here (NY NJ area), you would be able to sue the hospital. Not sure about TX.
(v) (H)

Julia has her ageda, Dmitry. She beleives socialism is needed everywhere, not only in TX. She beleives that bureaucracy can be more efficient than free entrepreneurs

The one point I do have to agree with Julia though is that medical system is in fact screwed up here. But, the solution is not in moving towards the social medicine.
On the point of who to choose… I really hate the fact that we are forced to choose a lesser evil. But I will vote against Hillary and Obama. I read their programs, and I am convinced that it will not accomplish anything good.
I do not agree with McCain on some of the points, but so far, his program appears to create fewer problems.

Dima, it's easy to say that our medical system is screwed up...
Do you have any ideas how it can be fixed? I don't. And nobody knows (except Julia, of course)...
So we have to adjust to it...

Roman wants to close the subject for obvious reason - he has nothing to
say to argue my point, as well as I didn't see anyone of you say
anything to hold water on the question. Vitaliy I don't wish you or
your family ever to go through of what I went through that day.. but
you are simply stupid if you mean what you just said to me.

so far you all described the system based on Insurance company
advertisement flayer..how many of you actually had to deal with real
health problems personally?

Mihail, you doing nothing more but running your mouth without making
point - do you know any other word besides Communism? you are
incapable to think and analyze, you work for company which pays for
your insurance, which makes you incompetent on the subject. you are going with the flow without thinking.

Vitaliy, actually I do have some ideas and already presented some of them to both the NY State and Centers for Medicare Services. Guess what, it took them forever to take a look at that, even when I showed them that systems they had in place were overpaying. NY Medicaid took a year to fix a problem. CMS took a little less.
But, I think I am going honor Roman's request ,
"...Let's close out this topic. Its a waist of time.",
and shut up about it now (sorry, spent too much time dealing with healthcare issues)
"So we have to adjust to it..." --100% agree. There are a lot of options and THANKFULLY we have an ability and responcibility to choose wisely.

"Vitaliy I don't wish you or
<br />your family ever to go through of what I went through that day.. but
<br />you are simply stupid if you mean what you just said to me."

That wasn't nice.

Julia it's not that I have nothing to say, it's just that your idea is so out there it doesn't even require a discussion. I am putting this in a same line with UFO's, Area 51, Matza being made out of blood theory, and all the other crazy stuff. I have heard and seen some wild theories about health care, yours is the winner. Thats why I am closing this out.

roman it's not up to you. if I want to speak out about this who are you
to say "I am closing this out"... just another side of you which shows
your communistic attitude. yet you didn't make 1 (just 1!) point
against universal health care which countries like England, France and
others have - are you calling England a communism country?.. you are
the joke yourself - you making clown out of yourself by attacking me -
calling me names, but yet not making any sense yourself. you said you
are paying $13200/year for insurance just for yourself? are you married
with 3 kids? because if not - that is a ridiculous lie that you paying
that much.

With kids but not 3 and there is a good reason why I pay that much. I have the best plan with all the drugs, most doctors and any service I need for the entire family. It is worth every penny of it.

Let me make a couple of points.
"Medicare improperly paid about $12.1 billion in fee-for-service claims for fiscal year 2001. The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) reports this as an improvement. By 1998, the improper payment rate was cut in half, from a high of 14% when first studied in 1996. Yet in recent years there's been little substantial improvement (see appendix below)."
Shows the ability of the government to manage money.

This system is not perfect. But what you are advocating for - is just a hell. If you admitted I know better about communism - listen, because your "advanced" ideas are antiquated communistic. The most laughable is “your company pays for you” – when I said I temporarily do not work. Did you read my post?

“Chukcha ne chitatel’ – chukcha pisatel’? :-D

Mihail, you doing nothing more but running your mouth without making <br />point - do you know any other word besides Communism? you are <br />incapable to think and analyze, you work for company which pays for <br />your insurance, which makes you incompetent on the subject. you are going with the flow without thinking

Julia, what do you know about thinking at all? You never addressed any argument Roman, Sveta, Vitaly, me and other made. You are just making silly communist statements and then overreact after our debunking your baseless illusions.

* Medicare and Medicaid spend 26.9 cents for every dollar of benefits versus 16.2 cents for private insurance.<br /><br />* Thus government spends 66 percent more than the private sector per dollar of benefits paid. <br /><br />Source: Mark Litow and the Technical Committee of the Council for Affordable Health Insurance, "Rhetoric vs. Reality: Comparing Public and Private Health Care Administrative Costs," March 1994, Council for Affordable Health Insurance, 112 S. West Street, 4th Floor, Alexandria, VA 22314, (703) 836-6200.

Dima, the issue is private companies, government funded insurance that's a totally different issue. Julia believes that U.S. Government should engage in business of insurance out right. Offering insurance to anyone who wants it from Homeless to Warren Buffet.

Roman, don't put your words in my mouth.. I never said that, that is
your inaccurate interpretation of what I said.. I said you can keep
your insurance, I said we need to have government system on hand AS
WELL to offer care for everyone.. read what I say next time, you
getting really ridiculous here..

I never said that government should provide insurance for homeless - I said they should provide HEALTH CARE for EVERYONE.

Roman, no it's not. you have no idea of the structure of health care in this country are you?

So you want to take away people's right to choose just because they cannot afford insurance ? Right now I get a medicaid I pick and choose a physician, do you propose that Government offers health care ? So the Government selects my physician and hospital ?

For some ignorant girls

REalClearPolitics:

Nationalized Health Care is Broken

One basic problem with nationalized health care is that it makes medical services seem free. That pushes demand beyond supply. Governments deal with that by limiting what's available.

That's why the British National Health Service recently made the pathetic promise to reduce wait times for hospital care to four months.
The wait to see dentists is so long that some Brits pull their own teeth. Dental tools: pliers and vodka.
One hospital tried to save money by not changing bed sheets every day. British papers report that instead of washing them, nurses were encouraged to just turn them over.

Read more:

***********.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/09/socialized_medicine_is_broken.html

So, we see 2 different points here. On one side government is wasting money, on the other it "supposedly" pays more then the insurance company in benefits. The reason I use "supposedly", is because I can show that this statement is actually not true as they have not counted all aspects in this report. But, what I was trying to show, is that there is still at least 70% waste in both the government and commercial sectors. Can we do better, like hell we can. Why are we not doing it? That is because the market conditions do not require companies to get that much better yet. And we, as consumers, let them get away with it.

To make sure we continue this conversation in the constructive way, Julia, are you a proponent of Universal Coverage or government run healthcare system?

Government rationing of health care in Canada is why when Karen Jepp was about to give birth to quadruplets last month, she was told that all the neonatal units she could go to in Canada were too crowded. She flew to Montana to have the babies.

"People line up for care; some of them die. That's what happens," Canadian doctor David Gratzer, author of The Cure, told "20/20". Gratzer thought the Canadian system was great until he started treating patients. "The more time I spent in the Canadian system, the more I came across people waiting. ... You want to see your neurologist because of your stress headache? No problem! You just have to wait six months. You want an MRI? No problem! Free as the air! You just gotta wait six months."

Canadian doctors tell us the system is cracking. More than a million Canadians cannot find a regular family doctor. One town holds a lottery. Once a week the town clerk gets a box out of the closet. Everyone who wants to have a family doctor puts his or her name in it. The clerk pulls out one slip to determine the winner. Others in town have to wait

president of the Canadian Medical Association, Dr. Brian Day, because under government care, he says, "We found ourselves in a situation where we were seeing sick patients and weren't being allowed to treat them.

Canadians stuck on waiting lists often pay "medical travel agents" to get to America for treatment. Shirley Healey had a blocked artery that kept her from digesting food. So she hired a middleman to help her get to a hospital in Washington state.
"The doctor said that I would have only had a very few weeks to live," Healey said.
Yet the Canadian government calls her surgery "elective."
"The only thing elective about this surgery was I elected to live," she said.

We found one place where providers offer easy access to cutting-edge life-saving technology, such as CT scans. And patients rarely wait.
But they have to bark or meow to get access to this technology. Vet clinics say they can get a dog or a cat in the next day. People have to wait a month.

Dmitriy, two things needs to be done. First there must be better
regulations on the pricing on drugs for consumer - that would solve a
lot of pricing issues. Second government need to extend their Medicaid
program for everyone and raise tax to be able to do so. That way a lot
of people will drop their insurance (not people like Roman...) but yet,
we will have a choice to keep insurance or use government care. yes we
will have more tax, but I have no problem with that, because doctors
and hospitals under the system will have no right to refuse care under
any circumstances.

People die every day here because their insurance
refuse to cover large expenses for cancer treatments and such. My
experience was a very clear
proof of risk we have with the system we have now. Doctors didn't know
what was wrong with me before they cut me.. they didn't know how much
it will cost - my doctor (who was Arabian - the best doctor I ever met)
made decision to help me. Hospital kept me in agony for hours trying to
figure out who will pay for it. It shouldn't be that way.

Julia, you just corrected me when I said insurance and said "no I was talking about health care" now we are talking about medicaid again. Which is it ? Health Insurance (including medicaid) or health care ?

Explain to me again, why I need to contritute my hard earned money to someone else's problems ? Aren't people who work hard to earn more get punished for their success then ?