You looked at the first article that popped-up, and it's dated 2007.
Look at 2nd, 3rd, etc

OK, I think the fact that Unions cost more to company owners is a common knowledge.
But unionized companies are not the only once that move their production to China.
Let's just agree that unions are not helping us to compete and move on until another "well-wisher" connected unions to Obama and topic turned into another Obama topic
I really care to hear what can be done to keep production in US besides voting for republicans.
Unless you can logically link two together without propaganda.

Ira, witch burnings were also very important in this country and served some purpose. (I'm joking here, don't throw an empty jug of wine at me) (fr) (fr) (fr) (fr)
At this point, unions are pure evil, a very serious obstacle on the way to compete with other economies. That's all.

agree on Unions - they outlived themselves in their current form.
They served important purpose during first half of the last century, though... we all know that. And they all know too, if they will remain in their present form, they will just commit a slow suicide.

May be I will say something obvious. But seriously, the only way I see for the manufacturing to stay in US is constant introducing new products. Products so high tech that other economies simply cannot compete, they do not have those technologies. To do so the investments in research and development have to be doubled or tripled. Unfortunately, these are on decline.

iPhone is high tech. Designed here and made where???
Михаил, we give them our technologies and teach them how to do it. Nobody is stilling it from us. We give it up voluntarily.

Mikhail G - agree, this is how it should ideally be.
And R&D is still mostly here.

Well, it is not to argue, just to exchange views. A sane company would not transfer brand new technology anywhere out of country. They are transfering oldtechnology after new technology is in the end of the R&D pipe.
Problem is, that the investnebts in science and R&D are on decline.

iPhone is not high-tech anymore, since other companies have developed similar products, so now the competition is in who can make the product cheaper.

1. This is not a point, iPhone is a first thing I could think of. The point is - we give them out technology, old and new
2. iPhone is still an Apple product and distribute by AT&T only, so they can (and did) charge anything they want for it. No competition. And yet, they don't make it in California.

Не могу не согласиться в этом С Ирой...(впервые)..но ГДЕ ВЫХОД ИЗ ЭТОГО ИСХОДА?

Не могу не согласиться в этом С Ирой...(впервые)..но ГДЕ ВЫХОД ИЗ ЭТОГО ИСХОДА?
Во первых, нужно перестать оживлять мертвый бизнес - Автоиндустрию, к примеру. (Еще с шестидесятых годов делать легковые машины в Америке - НЕ ВЫГОДНО.) Как это сделать - сделать любой bailout нелегальным. Нет денег продолжать производство - закрывайся. Вы дали бы мне денег в долг если бы я у вас на глазах загубил процветающий бизнес, но сказал бы что если мне дадут деньжат побольше - я придумаю как его воскресить, за ваш счет?

R&D efforts could be outsourced to country with more inteligent work force if a company was sure the technology would not be stolen there before the product hits the market. So far there is not so many countries that fullfill that requirement. However, it was not out of reach if this country would continue the trend on science investments. Capitalism or not has nothing to do with that.
The example of the iPhone was right on the point. iPhones were manufactured in this country first couple years. As soon as other companies even annonced their plans to compete with this product, the rules of the gme has changed. Now it is about price. To be ahead of the game a company has to ivest in new products even more during downturn

Any example high end technology for consumer product fabrication developed in other system but capitalism?

Weapons are consumer products?
Even then could you please give an example of soviet developed weapon that did not use stollen western technology?

Well, I am not quite understanding the point. You think the companies will outsource R&D in Europe? My point was that companies will keep these efforts in country if they can reach more inteligent workforce, culture of steady increase in science and development investments and patent rights are protected. If country provides these, what difference does it make is there capitalism or not.

Ira, even so, what soviet weapon was developed without stolen technologies by your opinion? Even decision to develop new weapon would be started from statement that western companies had already started similar development.

European countries are totally capitalist.
It is , however , mature, not wild capitalism.
And it has it's advantages and disadvantages.
Disadvantage - more difficult to start new business.
Advantage - those social safety nets their very high taxes buy ( this one is a matter of outlook, of course, - debatable philosophically).
So, will there ever be a model of society that will have flexibility and opportunities and " just do it" American spirit and European safety nets? Not sure, it would be ideal.... but.

on the subject - Freedman's "Hot, flat and crowded" - many will disagree with his arguments, but his facts and style are good.

Ira, it was other way around. States had annonced the Star War Program. Soviets very quickly accepted there was no way to keep up with it technologically. Gorbachev had annonced that Soviet Union will use asymmetric respnce. Most famous approach proposed as the response was the use of nails in orbit. Hardly technologically advanced solution

A little footnote, if you don't mind. Americans have also contributed to the rest of the world being at out throats trying to steal our success. We have advertised our lifestyle tirelessly. Look at the average Chinese or Indian or Brazilian person, what did they want to own when they were growing up, a bicycle, a TATA, a Trabant or a Cadillac? I don't blame Americans for advertising their life style, I'm all for it (If you got it, flaunt it), but we can't blame Chinese trying to pull the blanket over. They feel that it's their time.

Oleg,
this isgreat point!!! Just think about it - there is no way for Chineese to have the same level of consumption. There is no enough steel on the planet to provide each family in China with a car

We already partially outsource R&D today. My company uses India to make engineering drawings and some minor developments. Also we bring engineers from India to US for a year or so to help with development and testing.
Fortunately for us, Indian engineers suck. They take too much time and make many mistakes. But they can get better.

well, I would provide different alarming example. Colleage went to China for conference. Came back and told a story. They have 5000 PhDs graduated every year in science. In his area of expertise Chineese take each and every PhD dissertation defended in the US and repeat it. Not copy, they repeat each experiment described in the thesis. Coupled with huge influx of funds in science in few years they will be very close in the scientific development to the US. It will take another decade to convert it in technological challenge.

well, in my previous company we almost never filed patents for production equipment we invented becuse after the patent is filed it becomes a public knowledge and not really honored outside of US, so Chinese and Japanese were stilling our ideas right out of the patent office.

You and Slavik both misspelled the word "stealing" before. Миша, do you think that that method will make Chinese better scientists? Soviets built half of their weaponry by rebuilding American ones болтик к болтику, шов к шву. Did it make great weapon makers out of them? Hardly. Although the method you described might differ.

Every person I know who had visit China or did business with Chineese say otherwise.

btw, when it comes to patents for technological innovations, it is frequently stolen here as well, not only in China... that is why technology is better to trademark, not patent. Or sell process -but it is also risky, people who work in other companies come and go, and might learn your technology and start their own business. So engineers guard their secrets....

well, I meant more obvious examples. Many years ago Volvo built a track factory in China. One of the requirements to get a permission to build factory was to provide all drawings for the track. 2 years after Volvo started the production, a twin-factory was opened in other county. Other examples - car "Great Wall" (Toyota Rav4) or chineese jet- an exact copy one of the Sukhoy jets

When anybody is dealing with Chinese - it should be understood, that behind any Chinese outfit - there is a Big daddy , Chinese government. They are looking out for their country interests only. Once the government gets hold of any information, they assume it is their property (as any communist entity does) and move on to use it for the good of their people. Or rather of their party. That is why the big businesses understand - they will have to surrender some of their interests, and small businesses have no way to succed in dealings with China, if they are to establish their presence on the main land.

Ira, we will suspect that Misha is a normal person and does not spend his Saturday in front of the computer, unlike you and me. :-D I will answer, things that you mentioned were not products designed to compete (like weapons) you literally kill the competition with the correct weapon. Sputnik was a purely technological marvel.

Ira, it's debatable whether Sputnik was a product of an Arms Race or of a pure scientific genius, back in those days these two were inseparable.

"Первой задачей, поставленной правительством перед С. П. Королёвым как главным конструктором и всеми организациями, занимающимися ракетным вооружением, было создание аналога ракеты <FONT color=#002bb8>Фау-2
из отечественных материалов"

First rocket development had started in 1946 (I mean for missiles and spce rockets) in 1946. Germans had PRODUCED 20,000 missiles by 1945.

was not sure what topic to post this at, but it would somewhat fit here.
This is an excellent article, read it although it's long and we can disagree with his conclusions:
***********.theatlantic.com/doc/201001/american-decline

Julia, that article was the reason I started the topic. I love James Fallows and love his life's purpose: to research perceived dangers to USA from within, he moved to Japan in 80's and to China recently. Anybody who is interested in this subject should read his article.

and I agree with "perceived dangers" definition...
the only real danger - is complacency...

hey, thinking people can respectfully agree and agree to disagree on many things at the same time.... as long as communication is civil

Интересная деталь - мой дантист рассказал мне что большинство коронок делают в Китае. Самый локальный бизнес - зуботехнический, тоже аутсорснули. Кто следующие - сапожники? Ваши набойки еще не набили, в Шанхае праздники.

Может заготовки к ним? У моего машина стоит в офисе. Он с камерой залазит в рот и фотографирует со всех сторон, потом на компе подправляет изображение. Нажатие кнопки - через 20 минут коронка готова.