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Согласен.
Но настоящяя вера в Бога это не опиум!
Присылайте ваши мнения по этому поводу.

Рак легких или какие то другие заболивания нам даёт бог... ведь он же всё знает... всё может... и всё делает...

Если человек не верит в существование Бога, это не означает что он не религиозный человек, ведь Атеизм это тоже "религия", только дьявольская.

Человечество виновато в том, что на планете столько разных болезней, а не Бог. По причине греха мы унаследовали болезни.

Esli ya ne sobirau "marki" eto ne znachit chto moyo hobbi eto "ne sobirat' marki"
Esli ya ne veru v boga eto ne znachit chto moya religiya eto Ateism...
Bibliya eto kniga uzhasov...... odni ubiystva, bolezni i izdevatel'stva... i vsyo iz-za togo chto kto to nepoveril v "pravel'nogo" boga

Я согласен с тем, что Бог всё знает и всё может, но Бог не создал роботов на земле, а напротив Он создал людей по образу и подобию Своему. В каждом из нас заложен личный выбор, а иначе мы были бы не выше животных.

Я прочитал Библию, а некоторые книги по нескольку раз и не нашёл никаких ужасов, напротив чтение Библии по утрам помогает мне в протяжение всего дня, попробуй сам и увидишь.

I'll give you couple of examples...
According to the bible what happens if you work on Sabbath - Yes you get stoned to death...
How should parents treat a stubborn and rebellious son? - Yes you get stoned to death...
What happens if you are not a virgin on your wedding night? - Yes you get stoned to death...
and btw what's God's name according to the bible? May be you'll be able to tell me...

Эти законы были данны Израильскому народу во благо им же, а иначе они бы морально развратились, благодоря этим наказаниям многие боялись грешить. Но с появлением Иисуса Христа на земле мы теперь живём по благодати и если преступаем заповеди, то никто нас не будет побивать камнями так как достаточно лишь попросить прощение у Бога за грехи и простит Он нам. Иисус Христос решил умереть за людей, чтобы спасти нас от духовной смерти.

У Бога много имён типа; Всемогущий, Вездесущий, Любящий, Справедливый и т.д.
...в этом плане, кстати "свидетели иеговы" ошибаются на счёт имени Бога, утверждая как буд-то бы у Него одно имя "Иегова"

Next time i'll be asked to work on Saturday... I'll tell them it's moraly wrong!!!
btw Jesus wasn't that great either... how about when he said "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."
sounds great... so he came with a sward to kill some infidels...

you forgot to mention one name... "Jealous"
yes it's in the bible... (Exodus 34:14)

Я не считаю грехом работать в субботу, так как не живу под законом, но всё же стараюсь святить седьмой день, для меня седьмой день это воскресенье, а для тех кто работает в субботу или в воскресенье может отдыхать в другой какой нибудь день.
Ев. от Матфея 10:34 не мир...но меч. Хотя конечная цель Евангелия-мир с Богом (Ин. 14:27; Рим. 8:6), непосредственным следствием проповеди Евангелия часто является конфликт. Обращение к Христу может привести к натянутым отношениям с родственниками (ст35-36), гонениям и даже мученичеству...
Для того чтобы понять смысл этого стиха, прочитай всю главу. Иисус не имеет ввиду здесь в буквальном смысле слова, что он пришёл на землю губить людей. Ни Он ни Его апостолы не занимались убийством, но напротив им пришлось умереть за веру (кроме одного апостола).

Исход 34:14
14 ибо ты не должен поклоняться богу иному, кроме Господа; потому что имя Его - ревнитель; Он Бог ревнитель.
15 Не вступай в союз с жителями той земли, чтобы, когда они будут блудодействовать вслед богов своих и приносить жертвы богам своим, не пригласили и тебя, и ты не вкусил бы жертвы их;
16 и не бери из дочерей их жен сынам своим, дабы дочери их, блудодействуя вслед богов своих, не ввели и сынов твоих в блужение вслед богов своих.
17 Не делай себе богов литых.
Действительно Он Бог Ревнитель! А это значит что Ему не всё равно.
Представь такую картину: Парень дружит с Девушкой, а к этой девушке стали приставать другие парни, как ты думаешь если он её любит, будет ли он ревновать или ему будет безразлично? Так и Бог поступает по отношению к людям!

Kartina nemnogo drugaya...
Paren' lubit devushku.. a devushka lubit drugova... ili ne lubit ne kogo... ili lubila etogo parnya no bol'she ne lubit... a paren' ochen' revniviy... ochen' ochen'... i vzyal on etu devushku i nachal eyo pitat'... i ne prosto pitat&39; vsu eyo zhizn'... i ne prosto vsu zhizn' a beskonechnuu zhizn'... horoshiy paren'!!!

Нормальный парень, поступил бы как раз наоборот, он оставил бы выбор за девушкой. Бог ревнует человеку когда человек отходит от Него и идёт вслед дьявола. Если же человек выбирает дьявола, то Бог как в этом примере с парнем и девушкой оставляет выбор за человеком.
В отношение пыток и насилия, то это не исходит от Бога, но от дьявола. Дьявол как раз таки очень, очень завистливый, он сделает всё, чтобы человек повиновался ему.

one of my favorite quotes regarding this is
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is God both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
- Epicurus
and stop blaming everything on devil... it's not devil who created evil.. it's God...
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)
I wounder what little kids in Africa did to god to deserve being starved to death by thousands...

What is your criterion for judging whether something is good or bad?

Since you reject God’s transcendent moral standard, all you have are

your own feelings. Why should we accept the feelings of an admittedly

fallible human being? How do you clasify someone else's suffering as 'bad' when as evolution is mixed with survival of the fittest and natural selection, the only thing 'bad' would be the non-survival of yourself? From an evolutionary stance what is love to you, and why do you care about African kids?
(Sorry about the amount of qstns in one go, beats posting 10 comments :-D)

sorry, couldn't help :-$ In terms of: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7) I believe &39; is the right way to understand this verse. See, when God created the world, there was no evil. 'Evil' is not a thing but privation of good. Murder is privation of a good human life. Good is fundamental and can exist in itself; evil cannot exist in itself. A good example is that a wound cannot exist without a body. Evil things are not done as ends in themselves, but good things are. Since evil is not a thing, God did not create evil. (Cold is absence of heat, dark is absence of light, etc...)

What have morals got to do with god? What are morals? I know that killing or stealing is wrong because I wouldn't want that being done to me. Where do you get your morals? From god? 10 Comandments?

Why do you make assumption that good can exist as it self? God created good and evil. He created diseases, earthquakes, tornados and tsunamis. If he didn't what stops him from stoping it? He can do anything but he chooses not to.

If you're going to argue about God, then please read genesis 1. Everything God created was good, it was the fall of mankind that brought curse on nature with it. (Also note that God told man to rule over the earth, so as one is cursed it makes sense that everything under his 'authority' is cursed also). Therefore the only thing stopping God from stopping everything you stated is mankind repenting and turning back to God.
In terms of Christian morals please read the new testament (i'm sure you have (fr)). You on the other hand have a problem, because you are not supposed to have morals. You should only be thinking about your survival not others. Tell me something, I'm sure you're a good man :-D, if you saw a child about to be run over by a truck you would surely jump in front of it and push the kid away, maybe even sacrificing your own life. Now, in terms of the bible it's easy to explain this. We have a conscience that was put into us by God when He created us...

... we know right from wrong. This is one of the things that makes us different from animals. We also have a thing called 'love', that evolutionists explain as just mere chemical process. You on the other hand have a problem explaining your actions in such a situation. It's not logical for you to give your life up for someone else's in terms of evolution, it's absurd. Especially if it's someone weaker or elderly. You have no way of explaining 'love' for a stranger (especially in this case) because you don't know the person, he's not female (no hormone release, etc). Maybe this is the process of natural selection and you've just interfered with it?

Humans are social animals and in social animals it is generaly an advantage to be good. You said that animals wouldn't sacrifice themself to protect others but that's not true... there are a lot of social animals who will protect each other... some animals look after young ones of the whole tribe, if birth mother is not there a guardian will protect and feed young even though they are not related. another example that some dogs will die trying to save their master. I think "love" is a chemical reaction in your brain. Different chemicals in your brain give you different reactions to diffirent situations. I'm sure you know that drugs give you different feelings... for example cocaine can give you more energy, bravery, crazyness (this is just examples to make a point) Human body evolved with giving us different chemicals in different situations. For example we get a shot of adrenalin in extreme situations and that makes you do things that under normal situations you wouldn't do

btw... good place to read bible is here:
***********.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

Исаия 45 -ая глава с 5-ого стиха.
Я Господь, и нет иного; нет Бога кроме Меня; Я препоясал тебя, хотя ты не знал Меня,
6 дабы узнали от восхода солнца и от запада, что нет кроме Меня; Я Господь, и нет иного.
7 Я образую свет и творю тьму, делаю мир и произвожу бедствия; Я, Господь, делаю все это.
8 Кропите, небеса, свыше, и облака да проливают правду; да раскроется земля и приносит спасение, и да произрастает вместе правда. Я, Господь, творю это.
9 Горе тому, кто препирается с Создателем своим, черепок из черепков земных! Скажет ли глина горшечнику: "что ты делаешь?" и твое дело скажет ли о тебе: "у него нет рук?"

Бог наказывал людей за то что они не слушали Бога. Наказание городов Содома и Гоморы или людей во время всемирного потопа было следствием амморальности и беззакония. Поэтому 7-ой стих в этом смысле, должен быть понятным.

Правильно, каждый выбирает себе пищу по душе.
Я бы предбочёл выпить стакан воды, нежели каплю серной кислоты.
На этом сайте, который вы выслали, содержится много неточностей и неправды.

Pavel & Dima,
I think you are contradicting each other a little bit there... I'm talking about how you explaining the verse about god creating evil...
In any case... God had to kill about 250,000 people in the tsunami of 2004 just to prove the point? I'm sure there were some good Christians among those who died... I'm not even talking about people of different faith who are good people but believe in a different god or don't believe at all... I don't think this is a good god... I don't think this is a fair god... Bear in mind that he didn't had to kill so many people at once... he could have picked bad people one by one... may be it's his devine plan and a little bit of colataral damage won't hurt (tr) Would you call someone just if he killed 100 members of a family just because one of them was a thief and the rest were good people?

Lies? The bible they use is King James Bible... it is one of the most popular bibles in the world... I do admit that there are different types of bibles... are you saying that KJB is full of lies?

Дело в том, что если даже настоящий христианин и умирает, то это только лишь переход его в Вечную Жизнь. Беззаконику же, напротив грозит вечное отлучение от Бога. Представь себе жить без любви, без радости, без надежды и мира и других хороших качеств, которые даёт только Бог. Дьявол не способен дать этим качествам взамен другие, идентичные и поэтому в аду будет просто жутко.
В отношение вопроса о цунами, которое произошло в Индонезии, то есть сведения о том, что одна группа христиан спаслась от этого бедствия интересным способом, а произошло следующее: Одна группа христиан попросила у правительства дать им разрешение провести Рождественнское христианское мероприятие недалеко от берега, на что им(христианам) естественно отказали, так как в этой стране права христиан ущемляются. Вообщем эта группа, а их было не мало, решили подняться на холмы и там отпраздновать этот праздник с ночёвкой, это было 25-ое число, а 26-ого Декабря они поняли, что Бог их спас от стихии.

I'm sure he didn't mean the bible (fr), i think he meant the 'sceptic annotated' part. :-D Well since you are familiar with the scriptures, then you should know that there are no 'good' people, but 'all have sinned'. The Biblical punishment for sin is death. Give me an example of a person who hasn't sinned? What we really deserve from a biblical perspective is not to exist at all, but it is only by God's grace that we're alive. So infact you being alive is a miracle in itself. Maybe God is still holding out His hand to you waiting for a response. Blaming God for what is happening in this world when infact it is our own fault that it is happening is absurd. God created the world perfect, he let us rule it, we messed it up, now we're facing the consequences. Simple, but sad...

No, I didn' mean that the King James Bible itself is full of lies.
What I meant is that the comments and contradictions on that site are false and missleading.

I'll add to what i said about the word 'evil' before in Isaiah 45:7. In order to understand the meaning of this passage you have to look at least at the whole verse not just the word. Firstly the passage is written in present tense (create not created). Secondly the 'evil' is used as the opposite of 'peace'. The Hebrew word (rah) that 'evil' is translated has a very broad meaning in the bible. In other passages it is translated as "wicked", "bad", "hurt", "harm", "ill", "sorrow", "mischief", "displeased", "adversity", "affliction", "trouble", "calamity", "grievous", "misery", and "trouble.". I don't see a problem as to why God cannot create calamity? Don't forget that He's not only all-loving, but also all-just, and this people tend to ignore.

Pavel,
I'm very happy that some good people survived the tsunami... and I'm sure there were few rapists and killers who survived it as well... I don't see it as a miracle I see it as a coincidence... even if one good christian died that's already too many... also yes, I know that you meant the website and not the bible... :) give me an example of a lie?
Dima,
once again it proves my point that I don't like god like that... and that god is not great. sayong that everyone is a sinner according to god is might be true... but that would be equating that father/mother kills his adult son/daughter just because when he/she was 5 years old he/she broke a vase (even on purpose)... Sorry but to my understanding it's immoral. I hope to yours as well.

I'm glad we sorta have an understanding. (md) Now that we cleared the bible, it will be harder for me to chalenge 'what you think'. The problem is that people always want to blame someone else or something else for their mistakes. The first story in the bible is an example of that. Man blames wife, wife blames God. I don't want to be rude, but this is what i see all the time. People always want to see themselves as 'good' beings and there's nothing wrong about that! The only obstacle that noone wants to tackle is on the way to becoming 'good' one must find everything 'bad' take it and throw it away (easier said than done). The easier option is to blame someone else rather than admit ones weakness. Now I'm not saying that you do this coz you obviously don't believe in God's existence, but I'm pretty sure you would if you knew He existed for a fact (fr)

Well... I guess knowing that god exist as a fact is a bit of a big jump to make... you wouldn't believe me if I said that there is a Pink Unicorn in my room unless I kind of provided some proof... and as my favorite quote says
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
- Carl Sagan

The problem is not with existence of evidence, it's how people interpret the evidence. Even if you look at the bible, doesn't it amaze you how over 1,600 years over 40 authors living in different places and not knowing each other penned the book that is totally consistent. How it has been preserved through political and religious persecutions. How acurate it is historically. Even these facts would make me read it and respect what it says. The universe itself - the order, the laws, life. These are anything but chance events. I'm pretty sure you're an evolutionist. You would have a problem explaining these things (to me anyway :-D) I have realised that evolution is as much if not more of faith than Christianity. I do have to agree with you that I can't show you God, but when you look even at nature, even us humans with our intelligence can't do/replicate what it does - this is why we calll it 'intelligent design', because there's nothing unintelligent about it. (dt)

well... bible is full of inconsistencies... the fisrt thing that come to mind is "when was Eve creted?"
according to Genesis 1:27 it was at the same time as Adam and according to Genesis 2:20-22 she was created later because Adam was bored? :-)
yes you are right... I am evolusionist and I don't think that evolution is taken by faith... More proof that supports Evolution is constantly produced...
I don't think that there is anything intelegent about "Intelegent design" there are a lot of things even in human anatomy which don't really sound intelegent...
btw according to your believe how old is the universe? I know that there are some disagreements between Creationists as wether it is young (around 5000-10000 years) or old (billions of years). [I want to point out that there is nothing wrong with disagreements]

Привет Миша!, хотел добавить, на счет Бытия 1:27 и 2:20. В первой главе написано в общем о сотворении, во второй же более детально описано как это было. Так докапаться можно до любой книги или литературы.