A CONSERVATIVE MANIFESTO: On Environment
 

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. Wedidn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be foughtfor, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day wewill spend our sunset years telling our children and our children'schildren what it was once like in the United States where men were free."
-- Ronald Reagan

I feel like we are on a precipice of losing that freedom.
America is such an anomaly in the world of slavery and tyranny.

I am really really tempted to say something bad, but I will be a good girl and wait for Maria or Natan to respond to the Red Diper Doper babies' insults..(tr)

there is not response needed :)
other then what is "red diper doper"?
the posts here are totally and completely insane... there is really no other logical statement that i can make.

what is "red diper doper
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a commie druggie

red diaper doper baby
The children of leftist intellectual baby boomers, raised from birth on Marxism and a drug tolerant environment, and now in places of political and intellectual influence.
Red diaper doper baby politicians who want to legalize marijuana and tax the successful to support the unproductive.

***********.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=red+diaper+doper+baby

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Do you people have any thoughts of your own?

oh wow, i learned a new phrase :) it's a good day.
and Svetlana found a new name for me, i am collecting those.

Михаил,as a mathematician, how would YOU explain the reason behind the left's push for the radical expensive GW agenda, if the science is not settled, other than the desire to redistribute the wealth and control our lives?

We must resist these environmental kooks because the future theyadvocate is a society resembling totalitarian concentration camp.
THIS is clearly the reason.. i mean come on, it's obvious :)

well, it's very debatable because some of the ideas coming from the radical enviromentalists do sound like they want a lot of control - telling people how much toilet paper to use would be one of them..
will you answer my question or you need to look at your chart? ;-)

this is going to be another argument that goes nowhere, but i will bite
1) There is a lot more to environmentalism then GW. Remember shrinking ozon layer? Remember acid rains that we had before, has been practically solved in US with the clean air act.
2) I like the fact that i can run in Central park and along West side path in NYC without suffocating from emission fumes, like in Moscow or Buenos Aires or most other large cities where they don't have good emission standards
3) I enjoy going to the lakes and being able to swim and fish in them due to the environmental standards that we have
4) I like snorkeling in coral riffs that are protected by the environmentalists
Now, on GW, there seems to be little doubt that we do have some affect on global weather patterns. I don't buy into the Al Gore propaganda much more then i buy into the loony statements made in this topic.

resembling totalitarian concentration camp

this part is NOT debatable, it's loony, crazy, insane, i don't know what the correct medical term is for it. I mean you have to be on some hard drugs to come up with this idiocy.

Because they believe in it, in the same irrational way that you believe in god. They believe that the world is getting hotter and that it will cause cataclysmic events should we allow this to happen.
this is my opinion of course.

1. what is percentage of CO2 in the atmosphere?
2. the amount of CO2 was higher during WWII and T was lower..
3. and what about the Medieval Warm period when the Earth was even warmer, and the climate scientists have been supressing that fact..
btw, I am very rational in my believe in God, because if you don't, you start irrationally believe in GW and its effects or charts...;-)
haven't we already been through global cooling, ice age, etc. in the 70s?

this part is NOT debatable, it's loony, crazy, insane, i don't knowwhat the correct medical term is for it. I mean you have to be on somehard drugs to come up with this idiocy.
I mean, on behalf of or for the sake of the atheists, I am asking you, please stay civil...
if they will tax and control
-the food you eat
-the cars you drive
-the millage you are allowed to drive
-businesses you can open/grow/use
-th amount of electricity you can use
-amount of water
-some are advocating the population control (tell you how many kids you can have)..
how would you call this kind of society? *-)

i know all the arguments for an against the GW, i don't know if we are causing it or not..
it seems like there is a lot of good and bad science on both sides of the debate.
i mean we clearly exhaust a lot of CO2, and at the increasing rate, CO2 clearly goes up into atmosphere, CO2 is clearly a greenhouse gas.
Those things are facts not subject to interpretation.
everything else is.

oh my god, they are already taxing every thing thing we consume.. we must be living in a concentration camp.. help help!!! :)

well, who said I (we) like it or agree with(being taxed)? and you see no problem in continuing in the same fashion for the sake of something that has not been completely proven? I mean there has to be a line where we stop, and a good reason besides the hysteria and political agenda..

no, but we are cautious of our freedoms...and what it may lead to..
and btw, if libs and Al Gore truly believe in GW, how come they are not living the lives they are advocating and live in luxury homes, fly private planes, etc..
there are good solutions, that would protect the environment, won't ruin the economy, won't cost trillions of dollars, but libs don't want to hear about it..
********tinyurl.com/y8pgeku
the Senate testimony by a scientist..Europeans' C&T has failed, they have not been able to reduce their CO2..why our dems don't listen?
and I don't anyone to pay for my believes, they do..

i am not sure what you are arguing with?
You want to convince me that Gore wants to put everyone in a concentration camp?

I am not really arguing...just saying what I think about it...
I do believe that dems love controlling our lives, love telling people what to do, love spending our money because they assume they know better...so they resort to lies, half-truths to manipulaten the public opinion..

eeeh.. i have no idea why i used this format, so used to slashdot :).
i meant substitute "dems" with "politicians" of course

-some are advocating the population control (tell you how many kids you can have)..
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not such a bad idea, especially if you look at what's happening in India. They are also an excellent example of environmental degradation resulting from lack of regulations.
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you'd be the first to complain about welfare moms with 10 kids.

too late to take it backnow :-P but to me dems don't mind taking your individual freedoms as long as it accomplishes their goals for the "greater good"...all the same approach to every problem - more taxes, regulation, government programs...not even funny..
when it moves - tax it
when it keeps moving - regulate it
when it stops - subsidize it

the dems take your freedoms? really? where have you been the last 8 years?
1. Warrantless Wiretapping — In December 2005, the New York Times reported the National Security Agency was tapping into telephone calls of Americans without a warrant, in violation of federal statutes and the Constitution.

2. Torture, Kidnapping and Detention — In the years since 9/11, our government has illegally kidnapped, detained and tortured numerous prisoners. The government continues to claim that it has the power to designate anyone, including Americans as "enemy combatants" without charge.

Attacks on Academic Freedom — The Bush administration has used a provision in the Patriot Act to engage in a policy of "censorship at the border" to keep scholars with perceived political views the administration does not like out of the United States.

when it stops - subsidize it
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were you referring to GW's 2002 $190 billion farm subsidy bill?

Михаил (Mike) Рабинович deliberately misrepresented what I said, in addition to accusing me of being out of my mind, on drugs, and so on.
No, I never claimed that Al Gore and his ilk wants to put us all into a concentration camp. These people are just rubes, fools really, who use GW as means to push their political agenda, without a clue as to what this will turn into once the GOVERNMENT is given even larger power to regulate and control our lives in every way imaginable.
They no more know what they're doing than 19th century western European and Russian intellectuals who advocated communist ideas, as great and advanced as people thought these were at the time. The consequences of these theories lead to horrible results a few decades later.
When people cede their rights to the GOVERNMENT, this inevitably leads to tyranny down the road. Maybe not right away and maybe not for us. But certainly for our children.

"When the people are afraid of their government - it is tyranny, when government is afraid of the people - it is liberty." -- Thomas Jefferson.

Our rights as Americans have been encroached upon by the Federal Government and politicians in both parties for the better part of the 20th century. This process has intensified significantly lately - in the last few decades with a small, partial rollback of this encroachment only during 8 years of Ronald Reagan presidency.
The aggressive environmentalism, as advocated by Al Gore, is just one manifestation of this encroachment. The founders of this republic have never intended for the Federal Government to be of such scope, size and wield such powers as it does currently. Please read the Federalist Papers and the Constitution to understand that limited Federal Government with powers ONLY enumerated in the Constitution is at the heart of and is the essence of this great republic.

Ira, you're asking how the Government is encroaching on my rights? Here is just one example.
Approximately 60% of every dollar I earn I pay in taxes. Most of those taxes did not exist 70-80 years ago. And no, I am not a "fat cat" working on Wall St. I am what they call "middle class".
The size of the Federal Government is largest it's ever been. Millions of people are working for it. This vast bureaucracy currently consumes almost 20% of GDP and is slated to grow to 28% if Federal Government takes over health care.
And what have we got to show for it? Almost $14 trillion in debt and rising. Which is the debt my children and grandchildren will have to pay, thus significantly diminishing their standard of living. And you are telling me that my rights have not being diminished? You must be joking!!!!

Here is another example where the Federal Government will abuse its power if we allow it: under the currently proposed Healthcare bill everyone will be REQUIRED to purchase health insurance.
If one makes a reasonable assumption that health insurance is just a product or service like any other, where in the Constitution is it written that the Federal Government can compel its citizens to purchase any product simply as a function of being a citizen???

My contention is that under current administration the rush to expand the scope, size and power of the Federal Government has accelerated significantly. It is readily apparent in administration's agenda, whether it is related to environment, economy, healthcare.
This tendency to expand the Federal Government has been ongoing non-stop - for the last 20 years, by both Republican and Democrat administration.

Ira, I've written my note before I got a chance to read your other comment. You have to understand that while I am writing I can't refresh the screen to see what you may have as the latest post. If that offends you - sorry. You don't have to reply.

You're asking "what do you suggest?"
For you I recommend a book by Mark Levin (radio host here in New York on 770, WABC - 6:00-9:00 pm) "Liberty and Tyranny". The first post in this forum was copied from that book.
A great read for anyone who likes to think for themselves and wants to understand where as a country we come from, where we are right now and what needs to be done to keep it the greatest country in the world.

for all my conservative friends - strongly recommend a chapter on petropolitics and geopolitics in Thomas Friedman's book "Hot, flat, and crowded".
Even if he is half right, we are for some very unpleasant surprises - and very, very soon...
it is an excellent, researched and sobering book

what credentials does Thomas Friedman have in climate science?
if you trully want to hear the other arguments, you have to read those who are scientists..not politicized journalists...read the link I provided earlier..it has the proposed solutions/actions we should take, but not as radical or/and expensive..

If this is not a classical example of "brainwashed" I don' know what is.......
You:-D

I wish I could chat today, but have to go now -off to Tahoe to ski in the snow ( !) and enjoy the really nice climate change over there.
All you brainwashed Global Warmers -relax. The end is not near. Do not trust Goracle. ;-)
(v)

On a more serious note -because there is nothing funny about corruption in the science - read this article from WSJ:
How to Manufacture a Climate Consensus.
And based on this fudged data, the UN bureaucrats are trying to redistribute mostly American money to the third world countries ruled by despots and tyrants.:-S
(BTW, one of the corrupted "scientists " is from Boulder,Co).
********tinyurl.com/ykvrdou

Which climate change data is fudged? Please reference a scientific paper, not a FOX news/WSJ article.