Whether the society should provide everybody with certain minimalresources is a different topic. And I simply refuse to discuss it aslong as somebody claims that people have a right to certain resources.
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you're the one who brought up natural rights... you may substitute it with the right of a person living in a civilized society, if it makes you happy... incidentally, in a recent case, the Indian Supreme Court acknowledged that food along with water, a decent environment, education, medical care, and shelter are the basic human rights of a person living in a civilized society. India! India is more progressive than we are.

Lina, it's not semantics. It's about the foundational principles of this country.
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And as for the the foundational principles of this country, the only reason I even mention them is because many of the conservatives frequently refer to the founding fathers, failing to realize that they were only human, they couldn't possibly have anticipated and made provisions for every situation that might arise, certain things (like access to health care) were taken for granted or considered a given, and finally - we're living in the 21st century!

Lina, why don't you go and help poor. Then tell us all of the wonderful stories about it.
While some of us work for money because we have to support our families and pay taxes for your "rights."

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Global Cooling for the next 30 years!!! - Does not expire!!!

It's one thing to pay taxes to support government functions. It's a totally different thing to claim economic rights. When somebody says he has a right to health care, he effectively says he has a right to enslave me. Let's make something clear: I don't owe you anything.
Андрей, камень раздора как раз в вопросе что должно входить государственные функции, а что нет? Например, сегодня Medicaid оплачивает расходы на мед. услуги старикам. Если бы не эта программа многие из них прожили бы гораздо меньше. С Вашей точки зрения деньги налогоплательщиков не должны идти на эту программу? Если нет, то что делать с стариками?

Do you realize that the only way for the government to provide such aright to you then is to force somebody to become a doctor against hiswill, and that means enslaving that individual.
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or the governmet can ban or exclude from society those who are able, yet refuse to contribute essential services . would that still be in violation of any of your basic human rights? and isn't this what our society is in effect doing when granting working visas to the professions they deem most desirable?

Lina, I don't want to live in a progressive country anyway. The Indian Supreme Court is plain wrong. Once again, something cannot be a basic human right if its exercise imposes obligations on somebody else. Unless, of course, you support slavery and say that everybody except slaves has basic human rights. Furthermore, the fundamental political principles are unchanging. The concept of natural rights is unchanging. It does not matter how much the times changed and what is being taken for granted. And no, I am not fine with any other term including the word "right". When you beg for money, you should fully acknowledge that you beg. Beg nicely, and I may well give you money. However if you claim you have a "right" to some of my property or to make me work for you without compensation, I will give you nothing. And if you insist too much, I will shoot you - sorry. We cannot get anywhere until you acknowledge - without any reservations - that I owe you nothing. Not my property and not my labor. That's the essense of being free, and I am not willing to compromise on it, even if only semantically.

Олег, всё, что входит в функции федерального правительства, перечислено в восьмой секции первой статьи Конституции. Там длинный список, так что не буду его пересказывать. Постановку вопроса "что делать со стариками" я в принципе не приемлю, потому что старики (за исключением заключённых) - свободные люди. Они сами должны решать, что им делать. Причём решать надо заранее - пока молодые. Я лично для себя решил уже давно - не перестану работать, пока у меня не будет нескольких миллионов. Любой более-менее продуктивный гражданин может накопить очень много денег за 40 лет. Если кто-то этого безответственно не сделал (например, считал доступ к ста телевизионным каналам в молодости важнее беззаботной жизни в старости), то мы опять же может обсуждать, помогать ли таким людям, и если да, то как. Но я категорически против идеи, что у этих стариков есть на что-то право.

I have a question for all: Take one of my patients ( semi-hypothetical, and very common situation). You have a kid from a deeply troubled family, drugs, drinking, family chaos, no structure - the usual... finally,the kid gets into some foster care , but exhibits severe behavioral problems, aggression, oppositional-defiant behavior, etc... Should we as a society provide this child with psychological services, treat him with very expensive psych meds to stabilize his moods, and hopefully, prevent antisocial behavior, potential incarceration, and all the other consequences of this kind of upbringing? We see it every day.... where do individual rights and societal interests meet here?

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Happy New Year to all! Virtual hugs!

What do you mean by "ban or exclude from society"?
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not allow entry... but lets say they were to ban you entirely, would that violate your fundamental rights? do you have a right to live within a certain society?

Андрей, надеюсь Вы ответите на вопрос Юлии. от себя добавлю еще один. Вы пишите: мы опять же может обсуждать, помогать ли таким людям, и если да, то как. Но я категорически против идеи, что у этих стариков есть на что-то право." хорошо, не будем говорить об их правах, если Вас это так раздражает. Но каковы обязанности общества на Ваш взгляд? Должно ли общество, то есть мы с Вами помогать тем, кто не сумел в силу тех, или иных причин накопить достаточно денег на спокойную старость? (Надеюсь, Вы согласитесь со мной, что говоря "Если кто-то этого безответственно не сделал (например, считал доступ к ста телевизионным каналам в молодости важнее беззаботной жизни в старости)..." Вы сильно упрощаете акртину - возможно огромное количество не зависимых от человека причин, по которым он не стал миллионером.)