Просмотр полной версии : ПРОСТО О ПОЛИТИКЕ
Гера Така
20.03.2010, 00:18
- National Standards
- Centralized Government authority
What else? ah,
- People are idiots.... they just do not understand...
Keep pushing these ideas, and we will end up with no personal freedoms!
Алексей Пэтк
20.03.2010, 00:26
because you said the author was mixing up exceptionalism and patriotism, but I think the author was poiting out that those who don't believe in American exceptionalism don't like patriotism as well...
I guess I don't agree with the authors on that point. Patriotism and exceptionalism are two different things, IMHO. But the authors do mix up those concepts. As I already said a couple of days ago, IMHO, exceptionalism assumes entitlement to not follow the rules and be above the law.
and what's "our kinds of patriotism"??
it's "teaching our kids patriotism" -- sorry, a misprint. And there was no "of" in that sentence.
Светлана Гэмм
20.03.2010, 00:50
Again, I don't believe the author mixes the two concepts up - just talks about the coincidence that the new left doesn't believe in both of them..also the author believes that it's because they don't understand and know American history very well..and it shows when they are asked on it..and btw, it's also the consequences of our education system..(ch)
Алексей Пэтк
20.03.2010, 01:39
What kind of law is there for judging American Exceptionalism?
Gera, there is no such law. However, there are commonly-accepted international laws and norms. For instance, that you need to carry a passport in order to travel into foreign countries and might need a visa to enter some of them.
Aleksei, if you read the article about the exceptionalism carefully, you would have noticed, that it talkes at length how England was different from the rest of European countries. There was much less feudalism there. It's all spelled out in the chapter marked with Roman numerical I.
You should be able to extend that logic to Australia and New Zealand.
I will paste some more text to answer Aleksei question about Australia and New Zealand.
To find the roots of American exceptionalism, you have to start at thebeginning — or even before the beginning. They go back to our mothercountry. Historian Alan Macfarlane argues that England never had apeasantry in the way that other European countries did, or as extensivean established church, or as powerful a monarchy. English society thushad a more individualistic cast than the rest of Europe, which wascentralized, hierarchical, and feudal by comparison.
It was, to simplify, the most individualistic elements of En*glishsociety — basically, dissenting low-church Protestants — who came tothe eastern seaboard of North America. And the most liberal fringe ofEnglish political thought, the anti-court “country” Whigs andrepublican theorists such as James Harrington, came to predominatehere.
All of this made Amer*ica an outlier compared with England, which wasan outlier compared with Europe. The U.S. was the spawn of Englishliberalism, fated to carry it out to its logical conclusion and becomethe most liberal polity ever known to man.
America was blessedly unencumbered by an ancien regime.Compared with Europe, it had no church hierarchy, no aristocracy, noentrenched economic interests, no ingrained distaste for commercialactivity. It almost entirely lacked the hallmarks of a traditionalpost-feudal agrarian society. It was as close as you could get to JohnLocke’s state of nature. It was ruled from England, but lightly; EdmundBurke famously described English rule here as “salutary neglect.” Evenbefore the Rev*olution, America was the freest country on earth.
Алексей Пэтк
20.03.2010, 01:49
You should be able to extend that logic to Australia and New Zealand.
That's precisely my point -- if Australia and New Zealand went the same route, why do they talk about American exceptionalism?
Tocquevillemay have been exaggerating when he said that Americans were able toenjoy the benefits of a revolution without really having one, but hewasn’t far off the mark. The remnants of old Europe that did exist here—state-supported churches, primogeniture, etc. — were quickly wipedout. Amer*icans took inherited English liberties, extended them, andmade them into a creed open to all.
Exact renderings of the creed differ, but the basic outlines are clear enough. The late Seymour Martin Lipset defined it as liberty,equality (of opportunity and respect), individualism, populism, and laissez-faire economics. The creed combines with other aspects of the American character — especially our religiousness and our willingness to defend ourselves by force — to form the core of American exceptionalism.
Алексей Пэт
20.03.2010, 01:59
Maria, thanks, I opened the link and I read the paper, there is no need to copy in here.
BTW,
The creed combines with other aspects of the American character — especially our religiousness and our willingness to defend ourselves by force — to form the core of American exceptionalism.
This is one point where they mix up patriotism and exceptionalism.
This is one point where they mix up patriotism and exceptionalism.
so what? They view american patriotism as a part of american exceptionalism.
Алексей Пэтк
20.03.2010, 02:07
so what? They view american patriotism as a part of american exceptionalism.
That's fine. This is where our views differ. This is normal.
This is in response to Maria's Сегодня 09:03 post.
.
Is this really a fact, or just your right wing paranoia, projecting your own personal bias and "partisan hate"? Referring to thosewho don't share your opinion as moonbats, idiots, narrow minded, and trash? Constantly suspecting and accusing of sinister conspiracies...What would you call that?There's literally a handful of liberals in this group, and unlike you, I neither subscribe to nor read any blog, periodical, or any other pblication on a daily basis. Usually, if I read something in one of the forums that sounds somewhat extreme to me, I just skim through a few articles and formulate my response. Unlike you, Maria, I don't subject myself to regular and systematic brainwashing of partisan propaganda. So you see, Maria, the only one full of hate here is you.
Олег Сах
20.03.2010, 04:13
I thought that Renata's "Rubber room" was created for monologues of this sort. That goes to Gera, too. So no one accuses me in playing favorites.
Светлана Гэмм
20.03.2010, 07:19
The creed combines with other aspects of the American character — especially our religiousness and our willingness to defend ourselves by force — to form the core of American exceptionalism.
This is one point where they mix up patriotism and exceptionalism.
Can you explain why and how are they mixed up here??
PS. Australia and Canada never had their revolutions.
Алексей Пэтк
20.03.2010, 08:22
In this particular point willingness to defend your country by force is an attribute of patriotism.
PS. Australia and Canada never had their revolutions.
No, they did not - that is true. But Russia, China, Cuba and North Korea did.
I'm curious, does this article describe American Exceptionalism so well -- and you agree with it to the word -- that we discuss the article and not your personal (Svetlana and Maria) ideas about this topic?
Светлана Гэмм
20.03.2010, 08:40
1. about the revolutions - that's precisely the point - the revolution based on the idea of freedom, democracy, freedom of speech, religion, limited government, etc. IS exceptional - no other country had done anything similar, on the contrary, many other colonies wanted to be loyal to the King...France's revolution was anti-religious, anti-aristocratic, as opposed to freedom of religion, capitalism.. totally different what our Founders had in mind..in this sense - we are exceptional..
2. Your point about being entitled or above the law (you interpretation) - if you refer to the American refusal or objection to join or follow various international organizations sometimes - it is also the idea of our Founders - we have separated from the old World, and don't have to follow anybody's else "rules/traditions" - we often have our way of doing things, our own Constitution...and it is unique and exceptional..
Светлана Гэмм
20.03.2010, 08:40
3. We can discuss the article or your/our own ideas - it's your choice...I just don't see many valid opposing views..
Светлана Гэмм
20.03.2010, 08:43
moreover - the reason we have a requirement for the President to be American-born is because we didn't want any foreign influence..
:-)
Khramaya
20.03.2010, 09:42
this American obsession with protecting self from foreign influence leads frequently to reinvention of a bicycle.... Plus, if it was historically good to preserve American identity, in the modern world going overboard with it leads to isolation and loss of competitive edge.... Nothing against national pride, it's all good.... but the reality is that "The world is flat". We all read the book, right? And many others on the subject....
Гера Така
20.03.2010, 10:28
Look, Julia,
This is , as you put it - an American obsession. Let it be. And for some of us who joined into the brotherhood of obsessed individuals it is the way of life.
Do not judge!
And do not preach - the socialism is an old book. For the superior intellectuals like you and Ira , and Lina, it should be quite obvious - we are just simpletons.... and want to be let alone.
Khramaya
20.03.2010, 11:25
Look,
1- I can totally shut up and not say anything and then you will just enjoy a monologue:-)
2- who said anything about socialism? - total misperception of the concept.
3- nobody ( at least not myself) is preaching... people are here to express and exchange ideas. Don't like others ideas - understood, nothing personal, there is no need to say "you" every time. We discuss ideas, not personalities...
4 - not sure about others, I personally never claim any superiority in anything, humbled enough by life to do so....If you perceive my statements as statements of superiority, it is total misconception.
would be nice to have those principals as platform for debates:
- mutual respect,
- listening with an open mind to other' perspective,
-not bunching all people into a common label,
- trying to learn from others
Гера Така
20.03.2010, 11:50
To every single one of the participants, who claim - these are theirs or new, or other "ideas":
All of these "ideas" - are from the "old country". They may be called different names - "one payer system", "national standard", "international norms", etc...all of it either European or Soviet Socialism.
This is a "new" world. It has it's constitution, and nobody is going to change it. Not until the proper steps are taken. The people who are in power right now and who do not uphold the constitutional principles - are corrupt. Most of the Washington is corrupt. Thus giving the opportunities to demagogues like the current leadership to come to power.
Гера Така
20.03.2010, 11:50
The main reason they are in power is - the people are not politicallycharged. They go about their lives, not paying much attention topolitics.
The local issues are dealt with by the local governments... etc.
Untilthe current power grab majority of the population would not give a damnabout any of this. Just lets see what happens in November.
Светлана Гэмм
31.03.2010, 23:38
Neoconservatives got all the attention for the last ten years or so as a consequence of being seen as the biggest cheerleaders for military adventurism in the Middle East.
I think the next movement deserving a lot of publicity and focus is Neocommunism.
Neocommunism isn't full-force Communism, but it definitely embraces the redistribution of wealth through the mechanism of coercive state action. Taking control of private sector healthcare would be a good example.
We should call the members of this group the Neocommunists. Or, for short, the Neocoms.
Hunter Baker
Алексей Пэтк
01.04.2010, 01:01
Arrests of militia members in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana: ********tinyurl.com/ydtcsvl
Is the raise in political extreimsm the result of Fox News fueling the rage? Is this what US Conservatives want?
Олег Сах
01.04.2010, 01:26
Alexey, at this point it's unclear whether it's a raise of militia activity or government's decision to crackdown on something that was always there.
Does anybody find it strange that those people are easily called Christian extremists in the media, but no one dared to call bombing in Moscow a case of Muslim terrorism?
Алексей Пэтк
01.04.2010, 01:33
Oleg, I think it is close to being clear, as the number of organized militia organizations rose significantly in the last 2 years. I can dig out the data, but it was something like 100 -> 500 militias (I've heard it on the radio driving in to work this morning)...
Светлана Гэмм
01.04.2010, 02:12
what a double standard to be concerned now about extremism.. 8 years of Bush we had tons of the crazy extreme left demonstrators, protesters or just plain artists writing books about Bush assassination, making movies about it, or called him Hitler, fascist on a regular basis.. conservatives often being attacked on college campuses by "peacenik"-students.. now all of a sudden it's Fox's fault.. and those who are blaming it don't even watch it..
Олег Сах
01.04.2010, 02:15
I'm not very familiar with the subject and don't want to argue. However, the raise in militia activity may be real, or due to the change in government's classification.
Славик Саж
01.04.2010, 02:46
BTW, not all militias identify themselves as anti-govmt, nazis, etc. Some declare that their goal is supporting local law enforcement weakened by budget cuts.
After all, we have volunteer firefighters, guardian angels (unarmed) paroling street in troubled neighborhoods, maybe militias of local pre-screened community members is a next new thing.
I personally don't see a need for armed citizens getting together, but then again, I don't live on Mexico - Arizona border where illegals and drug smugglers are robing and killing local farmers.
Алексей Пэт
01.04.2010, 03:31
That could be true -- I'll look at that radio station's website to see where they got the numbers and how they classify it.
My only problem with Fox, btw, is not the information that they provide, but the inflammatory tone of it -- I watch enough Fox News to see it.
When Bush was the President, Fox defended govt decisions, now it is against the govt -- so it is logically to assume that it contributes to the rise of political extremism from various militias. IMHO.
Aleksey, why single out FOX? MSNBC is exactly the same type of reporting on the other side...
Btw, Obama allowed off-shore drilling today..
drill, baby, drill :) lol
Oh, paleeeese,
MSNBC is the outlet of leftist hate. The country rejected that channel, nobody watches it except the most liberal members of society ( which is, thank God , a small minority).
Arrests of militia members in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana: ********tinyurl.com/ydtcsvl
Is the raise in political extreimsm the result of Fox News fueling the rage? Is this what US Conservatives want?
Don't bait that hook.:-)
It's just a convenient little news for the left. There are always some radicals on the fringes. But this tiny group ( more like one crazy family with several members) is no threat to our society.
The real threat is the idealogs in radical militant islamist groups who are plotting against all of us constantly, in America, and their numbers are several orders bigger than these "Christian" extremists ( there is no such a thing, BTW, unless you love Jesus so much that you quit everything Earthly and go the the monastery).
And the doulbe standard is that the media is afraid to offend the radical muslims, but is so brave to yell about extremist "chirstians".
Светлана Гэмм
01.04.2010, 05:45
well, I think the fake concern about extremism and violence expressed by the left outlets and commentators is an attempt to dismiss and silence the critics of the current administration.. "I don't have a problem with information on Fox, just think it's inflammatory" - would be an example of that.. what is exactly inflammatory?.. yes, people are concerned with what the government is doing.. yes, people are VERY concerned.. did they call for violence? no, they called for actions (through civil chanels - contacting your elective official, etc.. there will always be wackos who misconstrue any message.. but for people who are always silent when their opponents are insulted in an extreme way, often themselves smear opponents, rificule their family members, etc.. it's disingenuous to worry about it now, to say the least..
Светлана Гэмм
01.04.2010, 05:46
btw, the speaker of the House claimed people protesting at townhallmeetings wore swastika..again, an attempt to smear their opposition, inthis case just regular voters..and btw, what's the left wing militia?? if the right wing militia areanti-government, does it mean the gangs in LA are the left wing..Iheard they are for big-government, income redistribution,government-run healthcare..(ch)
Светлана Гэмм
01.04.2010, 05:58
oh, I forgot - I think the left-wing gangs are against death penalty and tougher prison terms for violent crimes.. (ch)
Good point about the gangs. They are noble redistributors of wealth.:-)
Very important point I want to make is that when the protests are organized by the conservatives, the organizers ALWAYS request that the participants be polite and civil. Because we do not want to be compromised by some crazos who can't control themselves. And considering the amount of people in the Tea Parties in the last year ( millions!!!), the participants are doing a darn good job !
But you can't say that of the militant leftists who are small in numbers, but so aggressive and vile that they stink a mile away. They are just deranged and dangerous elements of the society.
Those who shout down conservative speakers at the universities or on book tours, who call a president of US a Hitler , Nazi, and call for his death, etc. Disgusting(N)
Khramaya
01.04.2010, 06:01
I actually listened to the radio segment Alexei is referring to also, it was on NPR. They interviewed a guy from Southern Poverty Law Center, an expert on domestic terror. So I can look some facts on their site, too when I have a minute.
Алексей Пэтк
01.04.2010, 06:23
Mike, I agree about MSNBC -- Keith Olbermann makes my blood boil as much as Glenn Beck.
However, my observation was that during Bush administration the number militias did not rise significantly (when MSNBC was advocating for the minority party), while it did during the Obama administration (when Fox is advocating for the minority party). Maybe it's the number of programs on the news channels that are "inflammatory" (there are more on Fox)? I don't know.
And also, Slavik is right -- I don't know how they count "militias", maybe they count Salvation Army as a military organization :-). Yet, there are people who patrol the streets of Detroit on Devils/Angel's Night -- but they don't call themselves militia...
Khramaya
01.04.2010, 06:42
Alexei, I can't stand Keith Olbermann either....
But I do like Rachel Maddow, she is funny!
And overall agree that MSNBC is very poor alternative to FOX.
That's why I mainly listen to NPR:-)
Славик Саж
01.04.2010, 06:46
Don't 'em militia boys live in the woods.
Do they now have a cable news channel (Fox) there?
*-)
:-|
A 13-year-old Yemeni girl who was forced into marriage died five days after her wedding when she suffered a rupture in her sex organs and hemorrhaging, a local rights organization said Thursday.
Ilham Mahdi al Assi died last Friday in a hospital in Yemen's Hajja province, the Shaqaeq Arab Forum for Human Rights said in a statement quoting a medical report.
She was wedded the previous Monday in a traditional arrangement known as a "swap marriage," in which the brother of the bride also married the sister of the groom, it said.
"The child Ilham has died as a martyr due to the abuse of children's lives in Yemen," the non-governmental organization said.
Her death was a "flagrant example" of the results of opposing the ban on child marriage in Yemen, which was leading to "killing child females," it said.
he marriage of young girls is widespread in Yemen, which has a strong tribal structure.
The death of a 12-year-old girl in childbirth in September illustrated the case of the country's "brides of death," many of whom were married off even before puberty.
Controversy heightened in Yemen recently over a law banning child marriage in the impoverished country through setting a minimum age of 17 for women and 18 for men.
Thousands of conservative women demonstrated outside parliament last month, answering a call by Islamist parties opposing the law.
A lesser number of women rallied at the same venue a few days later in support of the law, the implementation of which was blocked pending a request by a group of politicians for a review.
Iran Rape Video Is Indictment of Obama
by Pamela Geller
04/08/2010
Video evidence has come to light of rape in the prisons of the Iranian regime. The Planet Iran website on Tuesday published the graphic and sickening video.
“I could tell that the girls were more afraid of their ‘wedding’ night than of the execution that awaited them in the morning,” a member of the paramilitary Basiji militia said last July about the prison rapes. “And they would always fight back, so we would have to put sleeping pills in their food. By morning the girls would have an empty expression. It seemed like they were ready or wanted to die. I remember hearing them cry and scream after [the rape] was over. I will never forget how this one girl clawed at her own face and neck with her finger nails afterwards. She had deep scratches all over her.”
Just a reminder of the barbaric regime that used to be in Iraq8oI
More from Pamela Geller of Atlas Shrugs:
The sheer brutality of the crackdown on the Iranian people who were marching for freedom, for the principle of one man, one vote, was impossible for us in the West to fathom. We heard the horror stories. We saw unarmed people meeting bullets with sheer will.
But the Iranians could not win this way. Barack Obama made sure of that.
We watched the President of the United States essentially sanction the crushing suppression of people who were yearning to be free by ignoring their plight. We witnessed the President of the United States look the other way while Iranian thugs committed acts of mass rape, torture and public hangings of innocent people. All that and more was done by an Islamic regime that President Obama demands that we respect.
We watched the President of the United States essentially sanction the crushing suppression of people who were yearning to be free by ignoring their plight.
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"We call on the Iranian government to stop all violent and unjust actions against its own people," Obama said in a written statement. "The universal rights to assembly and free speech must be respected, and the United States stands with all who seek to exercise those rights."
Khramaya
09.04.2010, 11:53
Maria, what is the point of these posts?
We all know about brutality of many regimes. Do you suggest US should have invaded Iran as well? How about other countries that commit and committed genocide, had and have repressive regimes - and we did nothing? And by "we" I mean "we" as the country, no matter what the administration is or was. Governments get involved when it's in their interest, it is a very sad reality. We've seen it during WWII, Khmer Rouge, during Rwanda genocide, Sudan....we can keep going on and on.....
It is difficult to understand criticism - verbal condemnation is what is done most of the time in those situations, economic sanctions applied ( and they are in place) - what else is expected?
Светлана Гэмм
09.04.2010, 12:06
let me answer your question with the words of someone who was the victim of the oppressive regime, risked his life fighting for freedom, Nathan Sharansky, and what it meant to him when someone was not afraid to call it as it is..
Светлана Гэмм
09.04.2010, 12:07
Q. Were there any particular Reagan moments that you can recall being sources of strength or encouragement to you and your colleagues?
A. I have to laugh. People who take freedom for granted, Ronald Reagan for granted, always ask such questions. Of course! It was the great brilliant moment when we learned that Ronald Reagan had proclaimed the Soviet Union an Evil Empire before the entire world. There was a long list of all the Western leaders who had lined up to condemn the evil Reagan for daring to call the great Soviet Union an evil empire right next to the front-page story about this dangerous, terrible man who wanted to take the world back to the dark days of the Cold War. This was the moment. It was the brightest, most glorious day. Finally a spade had been called a spade. Finally, Orwell's Newspeak was dead. President Reagan had from that moment made it impossible for anyone in the West to continue closing their eyes to the real nature of the Soviet Union.
Светлана Гэмм
09.04.2010, 12:08
here some more what he had to say on his struggle
***********.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/224ncdel.asp
Khramaya
09.04.2010, 12:17
Sveta, this is all good, but do you deny that Reagan was driven by self-interest ( or, by the US interest)? The only reason US acted is because they felt threatened by the USSR at that point of history. Nobody helped my grandfather when he vanished in Gulag.
What do we suggest USA did to Iran in response to, admittedly, despicable acts committed there? Constructively?
in a format "If I was a President...."?
Светлана Гэмм
09.04.2010, 12:23
I already said.. to call it as it would be a great start.. to call the Iranian regime for what they are.. but you have to believe it first.. I believe our prez doesn't.. he doesn't believe US is an exceptional country, beacon of freedom, like Reagan did.. maybe Reagan didn't save a lot of дедушки vanished in Gulag before, but he surely prevented many more to vanish, not only in Russia, but other countries as well.. of course, it's American interest or self-interest to have as little as oppressive regimes as possible.. democratic countries are usually our allies..
Of course! It was the great brilliant moment when we learned that Ronald Reagan had proclaimed the Soviet Union an Evil Empire before the entire world.
-------------------------------------------------------------
and by the entire world he meantat ameeting of the National Association of Evangelicals in Orlando, Florida. yeah, that's almost like speaking at the UN.
Светлана Гэмм
09.04.2010, 12:41
they asked me to give the troll the msg.. said they limited her/his?? internet access, and she went beserk.. now posing as some Lina on одноглазники and is also a big Obama supporter..:-D
Светлана Гэмм
09.04.2010, 12:47
off topic.. what happen to T? :-) you better get treated now before Obamacare takes effect.. I heard overweight psych patients will be denied their meds since one of the side effects is weight gain.. and they don't want to pay for your Phentermine either.. (H)
sadly this is what happens when a schizo becomes non-compliant. unfortunately, no amount of health reform could be of any help in this situation. it would be funny if it were not so sad.
Maria, what is the point of these posts?
I was just reading the Atlas Srugs blog run by a very courageous woman, Pamela Geller, who exposes brutality to women by radical regimes on a daily basis. ( She must have bodyguards for protection 24/7). So, I was overwhelmed and wanted to share with this group. You won't find stuff like this in MSM.
( I'm still shaking from the mental images of those poor women being raped in prisons, like they used to do regularly).
What do we suggest USA did to Iran in response to, admittedly, despicable acts committed there? Constructively?
This is from a few months ago when Iranians had their strongest and biggest protests against their tyrannical regime. Obama did not side with the protesters. :-|
All he needed to do is offer them their moral support and clarity that America is still on the side of all freedom fighters.
But he did not. He does not believe in freedom the way Reagan did.
Only much later , in response to a lot of critisim here at home, did he say what Lina posted below. But it was too late...
He does not believe in freedom the way Reagan did.
----------------------------------------------------------------
I wish you were here when Reagan was in office.
Many in in this group have arather disturbing tendency of idolizing someof our former presidents, verymuch like they were taught to do in the USSR.
Светлана Гэмм
09.04.2010, 13:31
talking to yourself? :-)
is Sharansky in this group too?? hmm, I didn't know.. (ch)
it was a big effen deal when the Soviet Union collapsed.. that's why lots of people respect Reagan for having been part of it..
Many in in this group have arather disturbing tendency of idolizingsomeof our former presidents, verymuch like they were taught to do inthe USSR.
I don't remember they taught us in USSR to idolize Ronald Reagan (H)
Светлана Гэмм
09.04.2010, 13:37
isn't it shocking to hear about idolizing from someone who voted for Obama?? (ch)
first of all, theres no possible way in the world you could know whom I voted for or if I voted at all - unless the voices in your head told you. furthermore, if you don't see the difference between voting for someone and idolizing them.. well, what am I saying - they're obviously one and the same to you.
There is nothing wrong in idolizing a person who believes in freedom above all!
There is a lot of wrong in idolizing a president who promises to give free "stuff" to parasites.
he doesn't believe US is an exceptional country, beacon of freedom, like Reagan did.. maybe Reagan didn't save a lot of дедушки vanished in Gulag before, but he surely prevented many more to vanish, not only in Russia, but other countries as well..
------------------------------------------------------------------
Reagan- жил, Reagan - жив, Reagan - будет жить!
There is nothing wrong in idolizing a person who believes in freedom above all!
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except that the bible forbids it *-)
Hitler was a Leftist
"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler
(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)
Just ran across this in the blogosphere. A good reminder of history, and how leftist ideology leads to tyranny.
Khramaya
09.04.2010, 22:12
well, again, Maria, you are talking about SAYING something.
And I am asking about DOING. If Obama said whatever it wouldn't help and it wouldn't stop anything. I agree about timely condemnation of despicable acts, but it doesn't help reality of those in prisons. What were you saying about other administrations not interfering in murderous regional conflicts in prior years? - in Africa? - and I am not only talking about Bush, but about ANY administration? Did America saying anything ever stopped any genocide or atrocity? Only military intervention does. And we intervene only wnen it's in our interests. Sadly.
Светлана Гэмм
09.04.2010, 23:28
I believe it was not a military intervention that helped collapse the Soviet Union.. it was the rhetoric plus using all the possible means to make them negotiate with us on our terms.. it is our interest to stop Iran from getting a nuke.. but AGAIN I think the admisnistration doesn't be believe it's imperative, they keep changing the rhetoric - in the beginning they were saying it was everyone's right.. and also they don't believe the Iranians are that bad.. look how the administration is treating our allies starting with Britain (giving back the bus that was a gift, not scheduling a special meeting with the PM) and ending with Israel.. his motto is - if you are our enemy - we are sorry, if you are our friend - you are sorry.. very, very troubling..:-|
btw, Libya did stop their nuclear program without us doing anything significant to THEM, but it was because of the hard stance we took with others..
Светлана Гэмм
09.04.2010, 23:54
and also we did go to Kosovo (rightly or wrongly) to supposedly stop the genocide, and why do we support Taiwan over China, what is our interest there?
Алексей Пэтк
10.04.2010, 00:44
I think it was correct politically for the Administration to hold on their comments about Iran's after election mess. To me, the reason is simple -- the level of anti-americanism in that country is rather high. Speaking on behalf of the opposition would immediately crush their chances to get any political gains -- the ruling "group of people" would simply go on the radio/TV and say: "Look, those protesters are encouraged by America, funded by America and only serve American interests" -- remember who controls the media in Iran! The endorsement of opposition would have played against them. That already happened once when Bush was the president -- so they didn't want to repeat their earlier mistakes.
Of course, it didn't work anyways, so you can Monday-morning-quarterbacking it as much as you want....
No, Aleksei, it exactly the opposite of what you are thinking. The opposition in Iran is very pro-American, and their numbers are growing. They desperately needed American moral support in their fight.
I agree, Obama chose the cowardly route of political correctness. That's why he will never be a great leader of the free world.(N)
Hitler was a Leftist
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this is beyond absurd and yet sadly very predictable..
.
"Hitler outlawed labor unions in Germany. Yes that would be the "progressive" labor unions of the day like SEIU that Beck always complains about."
"Hitler worked with the industrialist of Germany and allowed a tremendous profit incentive to remain. The Nazis were a socialist party in name only. The State did not take over all the major factors of production in the German economy which is the hallmark trait of socialist state."
"Hitler greatly increased the portion of the German economy devoted to military spending and further believed that the best defense was a good offense."
"A look at recent history reveals that Republicans certainly favor more military spending than liberals. Reagan greatly increased "defense" spending even though a good portion of the increased budget was devoted to weapons of an offensive nature. President Bush was also noted for his large increases in the defense budget."
"
Finally Hitler's foreign policy was focused not on cooperation but on the use of force or the the threat of force to dominate the rest of the world. President Obama has consistently been criticized by Beck and other conservatives for "apologizing" and being "soft" in his foreign policy approach. They contrast this with people like Reagan who attempted to use military power and a "tougher" stance to achieve American foreign policy objectives."
"Conservatives use religious reasoning to justify their opposition to gay rights, the separation of church and state, and the general loss of "morality" in American culture. The myth is that Hitler was anti-religion. In reality Hitler used religious reasoning to justify his own policies. Hitler focused on how the Aryan people had a "Christian heritage" with principles that must be adhered in order to rebuild the country. This all sounds awfully similar to Beck's urging for us to return to the supposed Christian foundations of our own country."
"Hitler worked with the Catholic Church to implement his agenda."
"One of the targets of Nazi persecution, in addition to Jews, were homosexuals. Homosexuals were viewed as deviants under Hitler's government who were not deserving of equal rights along with other German citizens."
Гера Така
10.04.2010, 04:48
Lina, wake up.
One of the first lawsinacted byHitler was -
National Health Care!!!
so what??? your logic is beyond flawed. lots of countries have national health care, and they are far from becoming a nazi state.
Светлана Гэмм
10.04.2010, 05:17
I am actually offended when the government sends someone to my house once in a while to see if I have done any improvement in my house, so, they can charge me more in real-estate tax.. I find it a violation of my privacy.. but to lefties it's all good, as long as you get freebies, it's ok even if they look up you rectum..
wait if they pass Cap and Tax, then they will be sending people in houses to check on your appliances..
and Hitler actually persecuted Catholics..
by the same logic (Hitler worked with the catholic church and therefore was religious), we can call Stalin a muslim or an arab- he worked with arab countries against Israel.. (ch)
but to lefties it's all good, as long as you get freebies, it's ok even if they look up you rectum..
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if you assume that the left values their privacy any less than you do, you're even more delusional than I imagined.
.
.
and Hitler actually persecuted Catholics..
by the same logic (Hitler worked with the catholic church and therefore was religious), we can call Stalin a muslim or an arab- he worked with arab countries against Israel..
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I was merely expanding or rather attempting to point out the absurdity of Maria's and Gera's"logic".
One of the first lawsinacted byHitler was -
National Health Care!!!
and u know what was the first word Hitler said? :-O
Светлана Гэмм
10.04.2010, 06:45
who cares what were his first words.. I can still find tons of similarities - popularity, great oratorical abilities, was democratically elected at first, had a lot of the similar socio-economic ideas with the modern left, anti-semitism if you compare treatment of Israel with the current admisnitration, nationalized private industries, financial sector, eugenics... I can go on and on..
the ideas of the left does make the US and the world less free.. and it's a fact.. and it's under the name of the "common good"..
lol, i am just trying to continue the analogy.. and Obama is into eugenics? really?
fresh off the press? ;-)
I can go on and on..
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yeah, and they're both men, Obama has dark hair, goes to the bathroom every day, enjoy music (I'm just guessing), had white mothers, eat food... OMG, you're right, he's just like Hitler. and btw, so are you.
anti-semitism if you compare treatment of Israel with the current admisnitration
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well, that's just pure libel. do you even know the meaning of anti-semitism?
Khramaya
10.04.2010, 07:26
" offended when the government sends someone to my house once in a while"
- this is not Federal Government, but your local town .
Do you want your road paved? Do you like your local library have books for little kids and a little story hour in the morning? Do you want your local park kept clean and your kiddie playground kept safe, so kids don't fall off monkey bars and crack their skulls open?
How about public schools your local taxes support? Should they all be privatized ?
I would actually like to have a discussion on what taxes are Ok and what are not in people's opinion?
And how, specifically, they propose to pay for those things that taxes shouldn't cover- in their opinion?
Khramaya
10.04.2010, 07:28
OH, there is one perfect option for those who who don't want to pay local taxes- you can live in an apartment.
Like Hitler, President Bush was not elected by a majority, but was forced to engage in political maneuvering in order to gain office.
Like Hitler, Bush began to curtail civil liberties in response to a well-publicized disaster, in Hitler?s case the Reichstag fire, in Bush?s case the 9-11 catastrophe.
Like Hitler, Bush went on to pursue a reckless foreign policy without the mandate of the electorate and despite the opposition of most foreign nations.
Like Hitler, Bush has promoted militarism in the midst of economic recession (or depression as it was called during the thirties). First he used war preparations to help subsidize defense industries (Halliburton, Bechtel, Carlyle Group, etc.) and presumably the rest of the economy on a trickle-down basis. Now he turns to the very same corporations to rebuild Iraq, again without competitive bidding and at extravagant profit levels.
Like Hitler, Bush displays great populist enthusiasm in his patriotic speeches, but primarily serves wealthy investors who subsidize his election campaigns and share with him their comfortable lifestyle. As he himself jokes, he treats these individuals at the pinnacle of our economy as his true political ?base.?
Like Hitler, Bush envisages our nation?s unique historic destiny almost as a religious cause sanctioned by God. Just as Hitler did for Germany, he takes pride in his ?providential? role in spreading his version of Americanism throughout the entire world.
Like Hitler, Bush takes pride in his status as a ?War President,? and his global ambition makes him perhaps the most dangerous president in our nation?s history, a ?rogue? chief executive capable of waging any number of illegal preemptive wars.
********dissidentvoice.org/Articles3/Jayne_Hitler-Bush.htm
and here's a word from our favorite Canadian:
********current.com/entertainment/comedy/91390348_jon-stewart-does-glenn-beck-touts-conspiracy-theories-cries-video.htm?xid=RSSfeed
Jon Stewart Does Glenn Beck: Touts Conspiracy Theories, Cries
Гера Така
10.04.2010, 08:43
Proposed 28th Amendment to the United States Constitution
"Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to the Senators and/or Representatives; and, Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators and/or Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States."
Светлана Гэмм
10.04.2010, 10:33
Julia, I am not against paying local taxes, and I do understand what they are used for.. I am against government (local or federal) looking at me like I am a milking cow and completely disregard my privacy..
two more similarities I thought of with Hitler (ch) - both wrote a book before getting elected, both tried to build bridges with the muslim world..
BTW, there was no intent to compare Hitler with Obama, or vice versa. The intent of the post was to remind leftists they they share a great company:-P ( They just wont admit that Hitler could be a leftist and a socialist. Even despite the hard facts).
I was going to post the German National Socialist Party platform, but did not want to overload the forum.
I would actually like to have a discussion on what taxes are Ok and what are not in people's opinion?
In my opinion, the worst and the most unfair tax is the property tax. Just think about it: you bought a house, you paid mortgage for 30 years, worked hard and finally you are done with the payments. But you don't own the house. You have to pay your state government thousands of dollars every year to live there, until you die.
And when you die, the greedy government comes and takes away half of what you saved for you children or grandchildren.
That's the second most unfair tax.
Светлана Гэмм
10.04.2010, 11:03
how about if you have invested into a more expensive house than your neighbor who bought the house thousands of years ago, but still use the same roads, schools, fire department, etc.. why do you have to pay significantly more for the same services?? how fair is it??
Khramaya
10.04.2010, 11:06
"And when you die, the greedy government comes and takes away half of what you saved for you children or grandchildren.
That's the second most unfair tax." -
and this is what estate planning is for.
Nobody takes away anything under 1,2 mil ( or whatever it is now) . Over it - get a trust.
And how do you envision your sewer, road, traffic light, library, local park, town ambulance is supposed to be maintained after you are done with mortgage payments? The only thing I'm complaining - my school tax is quite high. But, hey, my kids went to public school, did great and I want other kids in town to get just as good of education.
Khramaya
10.04.2010, 11:08
Sveta, you can always reassess your home.
And your neighbors property is reassessed regularly and is ( at least in NY state) is taxed at TODAY's value.
Even despite the hard facts
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I'm starting to think you have no idea what hard facts actually means.
two more similarities I thought of with Hitler (ch) - both wrote a book before getting elected
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for the millionth time (although I wonder why I even bother), being a great orator and writing a book does not make one Hitler - killing 6 million Jews does.
Светлана Гэмм
10.04.2010, 11:57
compromising security and safety of six million Jews can just put you into this category..
what do you mean "reaccess your home"?? The public appraiser does it, and they do it with the current value of the home, at least here.. but there is a Florida law according to which they can only raise your taxes 3%/year.. sometimes the property values go up much faster than that.. so, for a similar property you can pay taxes that's two, sometimes three times the amount of what your neighbor pays..
But Julia, don't you think it sucks to never truly own your house? Is it not a violation of property rights?
And estate tax can't be sheltered by a trust. It's just a partial protection. This death tax ruins a lot of family businesses.
I truly hope it will be abolished once GOP in control.
It will be easier to get rid of then property tax.
BTW, in California we have proposition 13, which helps old people a lot -those who bought houses long time ago pay only taxes on the original purchase price.
So, here its better to buy the cheapest house, and then remodel it. The appraiser do not snoop around inside the houses.
The tax payers revolted a couple of decades ago and passed Prop 13.
compromising security and safety of six million Jews can just put you into this category..
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spoken like someone who has absolutely no idea what happened during the holocaust,whilesimulteneously desecrating the memory of six million Jews. ask any Israeli if their life in any way resembles the ghetto or a concentration camp.
Светлана Гэмм
10.04.2010, 12:26
just ignore my posts.. it's too much for you to understand.. in case you haven't heard there is a new Hitler on the block and he is the president of Iran and a Holocaust denier.. the whole muslim world reads Manheim, wishing the destruction of Israel where over 6 million Jews live.. and the rhetoric of our president provokes violence(read Israeli news) and encourages Israel's enemies.. but you don't have to think about it, think about free healthcare instead..
if you believe that Obama is just like Hitler, yet remain in this country, then what does that make you?
That's the most unintelligent return I 've seen in a while(tr)
We are doing what our free country lets us do- we rally against our dictatorial president, and we will fire him soon!
as unintelligent as your and Svetlana's posts that compare Obama to Hitler?I'm sorry, but such utter stupidity is beyond the realm of what I can grasp. let me tell you, there is no Jew in his right mind that would remain ina country headed by Hitler reincarnate.
and please explain to me how one can freely rally in a country with a dictatorial president?
Светлана Гэмм
10.04.2010, 14:19
"In a book Holdren co-authored in 1977, the man now firmly in control of science policy in this country wrote that: Women could be forced to abort their pregnancies, whether they wanted to or not; The population at large could be sterilized by infertility drugs intentionally put into the nation's drinking water or in food; Single mothers and teen mothers should have their babies seized from them against their will and given away to other couples to raise; People who 'contribute to social deterioration' (i.e. undesirables) 'can be required by law to exercise reproductive responsibility' -- in other words, be compelled to have abortions or be sterilized. A transnational 'Planetary Regime' should assume control of the global economy and also dictate the most intimate details of Americans' lives -- using an armed international police force."
Светлана Гэмм
10.04.2010, 14:19
Eugenics and the Obama Administration
Adolf Hitler and his Nazi Regime were also obsessed with eugenics. They actively worked towards assuming power over Germany's and eventually, the entire world's reproductive rights, with the goal of allowing only the most desirable human beings to reproduce. Obama's appointment of John Holdren as his Director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy (or more informally, "Science Czar") betrays his administration's eugenicist agenda.
Светлана Гэмм
10.04.2010, 14:20
While there is not enough space in this essay to treat of abortion, let me explain briefly that I believe unequivocally, on the basis of uncontroversial scientific facts and a sound anthropological ontology, that a unique, whole, and individual human being is created at conception. For an exhaustive explanation and defense of this belief, let me refer you to my essay entitled: "The Abortion Debate: A Reasoned, Scientific, Pro-Life Argument."
The relentless propaganda to the contrary, dehumanizing and miscategorizing human fetuses, is reminiscent of and similar to the Nazi campaign of dehumanization to justify their brutal treatment of helpless minorities like the Jews. The experimentation carried out on stem cells extracted by destroying human embryos, is chillingly like the medical experimentation carried out by Nazi scientists on their victims.
Светлана Гэмм
10.04.2010, 14:22
***********.humblelibertarian.com/2009/08/hitler-obama-comparisons-is-barack.html
Hitle/Obama comparisons: Is Barak Obama like Adolf Hitler or the Nazis?
America's Holocaust
So President Obama does not deserve a comparison to the Nazis because the Nazis perpetrated a genocide? Pardon me, sir- isn't Mr. Obama perpetuating a genocide!? He has been accurately described as "the most extreme pro-abortion candidate ever to seek the office of President of the United States. He is the most extreme pro-abortion member of the United States Senate. Indeed, he is the most extreme pro-abortion legislator ever to serve in either house of the United States Congress."
OK, Lina, you invited it by posting your comparison of Bush to Hitler. Now, let us enjoy the same liberty by doing exactly the same , but with your favorite president. (H)
Who is this?
He wants to take power during economic turmoil, while promising hope for the nation’s future.
Wants to clamp down on big business.
Blames all the problems on those who are successful, sayingthey’re greedy and selfish and their wealth needs to be Robin Hoodedaway from them and given to others not as fortunate.
Proclaims that the evils of capitalism led to the currenteconomic crisis, saying that the current system exploits the“economically weak”.
Gives speeches where, no matter the actual words or topics,people leap to their feet, yelling and screaming in praise. He usesspecifically chosen words and catchy phrases to excite the masses,while offering no real solution.
Accuses opponents of being right extremists who will increase the wealth gap to maintain control over the working class.
Appeals largely to the young, ignorant, and impressionable population.
Mandates that citizens have a requirement of civil service.
Wants tighter gun control.
Grew up in a country other than the one in which he wants to rule.
Wants innovation to originate from government, rather than from the private sector
If you said either Adolf Hitler or Barack Hussein Obama you would be correct.
( ezineblogger)
And it's not even that I agree with this, but just to show you that you can find all kind of crap on internet.
So, let's stick to the more factual information, like that Hitler was a socialist. Period. And that most tyrannical regimes in the world start with the socialist ideas.
Maria, isn't that what I frequently say to you? not very original...
I don't really blame you... tossing around these grossly exaggerated characterizations such as Hitler, dictator, enemy of the state...clearly just remnants of your Soviet upbringing. the party has taught you well.
OK, Lina, you invited it by posting your comparison of Bush to Hitler. Now, let us enjoy the same liberty by doing exactly the same , but with your favorite president.
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Maria and then you have the audacity to question my reading comprehension skills??? are you f'n kidding me? my posts were written directly in response to your andSvetlana's moronic posts... and primarily to undescore their absurdity. but thank you for further proving my point.
Khramaya
10.04.2010, 23:43
Svetlana, I have a question about abortions:
when all those unwanted children are born into poverty, whose responsibility it is to provide for them? If you guys want to minimize welfare, cut most taxes, etc?
Are pro-lifers ready to adopt all those unwanted children?
Or is the agenda is just to bring them to a moment of birth, and then - despise welfare mothers just like they were despised before, along with all the other poor?
I actually think that abortion, although tragic, always sad, and always undesirable, and preferably avoidable by education, birth control, etc .... in many cases is the most responsible choice on part of families and mothers who are struggling and are not able to provide for those children.
For as long as we don't have a system of equally providing for all children ( since children are not responsible for their parent's idiocy, misfortunes and sins) - there should be this choice.
Гера Така
11.04.2010, 00:27
For as long as we don't have a system of equally providing for all children
Any policy instituted for the good of all, will lead to over-taxation, wealth decrease, lack of personal responsibility and cradle to grave government!!!
Khramaya
11.04.2010, 04:00
Not for the good of all, but for the good of all CHILDREN.
one needn't look further then a very real possibility of own severe disability at a young age and children being left with very little....
You can argue - well, there are family members, grandparents, aunts,....whatever, however, this is very real and very common situation. I am not even talking about people being unemployed for extended periods of time, or simply lacking skills for employment that pays reasonably well. In those situations children suffer the most. I don't care about able-bodied adults, really.... but children should be provided with opportunities to achieve the best they can achieve - any society benefits from this in the long run. And they shouldn't suffer because of their parent's problems.
now I'm sounding like broken record:-)
Are pro-lifers ready to adopt all those unwanted children?
You bet! Why do you think those unfortunate couples who can't have children of their own, but really want to have a family, pay tens of thousands of dollars and go to Russia, China, Africa, Haiti??? Because there is not enough of newborns for adoption in America.:-|
Maria and then you have the audacity to question my reading comprehension skills??? are you f'n kidding me?
NO, I 'm not f'n kiddin you. You have no clue what you are talking about. Cheers.
maybe you should cut back on those, and then before you'll know it, things will start making sense again. (C)
Очередной идиотизм от нашего бездарного президентишки.
А то ему маловато кажется, что безработица среди Американской молодёжи всего 20 %. Нужно сделать, чтобы было как в Европе , все 40%.
The Obama administration recently decided to fight a war over the useof interns, arguing that for-profit corporations offering spaces forinterns are really attempting to avoid minimum-wage laws. Apparently,that “for-profit” distinction was deliberate, although somewhatinexplicable; after all, if internships are exploitative, does itreally matter whether the exploiter makes a profit? The worker stilldoesn’t get paid in cash for their efforts, which is supposedly thecore of the objection.
The unemployment rate among teenagers and college students is at 26percent, and if companies are forced through government regulation topay these interns, companies will look re-work their budgets to be incompliance, and less students will be offered internships. This meansless students can be brought in and gain valuable experience in a workplace environment. The federal government is attempting to change theentire point of gaining work place skills and create yet another under– served demographic of victims falling prey to private sectorcompanies.
It is amusing to see the Obama administration creating the image ofpoorly treated unpaid interns, when Mr. Obama’s Organizing for America offered internships to help elect the president in during his presidential campaign and are still offering up unpaid internships today. The Summer organizing program also does not even offer food, transportation, or housing stipends[.]
This meansless students can be brought in and gain valuable experience in a workplace environment.
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the only value of this experience, is in what it adds toones resume... internsare usually asigned tedious, meaningless tasks, learn very little, and contribute even less.
I have been an intern, I have worked alongside interns (we mostly did crossword puzzles together -when he wasn't busy gaining valuable corporate experience organizing boxes and making copies), and I trained interns... So believe me Maria, out of the two of us, I'm the only one with a clue.
Очередной идиотизм от нашего бездарного президентишки.
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takes one to know one (fr)(fr)(fr)
I have been an intern, I have worked alongside interns (we mostly didcrossword puzzles together -when he wasn't busy gaining valuablecorporate experience organizing boxes and making copies), and I trainedinterns...
Must be really useless job you did. Sorry for you and for the interns that were assigned to you.:-(
Young people in my family were a lot more fortunate , and got a very valuable unpaid internship over a few summers. (Y)
Светлана Гэмм
11.04.2010, 09:35
Not for the good of all, but for the good of all CHILDREN.
Julia, I have a question for you then - since we have all the wonderful help for the misfortunate kids and their parent have the "choice" available, can you honestly say that the kids in this country have gotten better? or on the contrary, has it contributed to the culture of irresponsibility??
the job wasn't useless... but what you don't seem to understand is that in a busy, fast paced(frequently undrestaffed) corporate environment, very few people have the time and the desire to waste weeks training someone who's only going to be there a month or two. consequently, most interns are stuck doing pretty mindless (for the most part)work.
so if you're going to feel sorry for anyone, feel sorry for your own ignorance and narrow mindedness. (F)
********article.nationalreview.com/430938/tax-season/mark-steyn?page=2
Mark Steyn Tax Season
According to theTax Policy Center, for the year 2009, 47 percent of U.S. householdswill pay no federal income tax. Obviously, many of them pay other kindsof taxes — state tax, property tax, cigarette tax. But at a time ofmassive increases in federal spending, half the country is effectivelymaking no contribution to it, whether it’s national defense or vitalstimulus funding to pump monkeys in North Carolina full of cocaine(true, seriously, but don’t ask me why). Half a decade back, it wasjust under 40 percent who paid no federal income tax; now it’s justunder 50 percent. By 2012, America could be holding the first federalelection in which a majority of the population will be able to votethemselves more government lollipops paid for by the ever shrinkingminority of the population still dumb enough to be net contributors tothe federal treasury.
2. In less than aquarter-millennium, the American Revolution will have evolved from “Notaxation without representation” to representation without taxation. Wehave bigger government, bigger bureaucracy, bigger spending, biggerdeficits, and bigger debt, and yet an ever smaller proportion ofcitizens paying for it.
The top 5 percent of taxpayerscontribute 60 percent of revenue. The top10 percent provide 75percent. Another40-odd percentmake up the rest. And half are exempt.
3.It isn’t even“spreading the wealth around,” as then-senator Obama put it in anunfortunate off-the-prompter moment during the 2008 campaign. Rather,it’s an assault on the moral legitimacy of the system. If you acceptthe principle of a tax on income, it might seem reasonable to excludethe very poor from having to contribute to it. But in no meaningfulsense of the term can half the country be considered “poor.” UnitedStates income tax is becoming the 21st-century equivalent of the“jizya” — the punitive tax levied by Muslim states on their non-Muslimcitizens: In return for funding the Islamic imperium, the infidels werepermitted to carry on practicing their faith. Likewise, under theAmerican jizya, in return for funding Big Government, the non-believersare permitted to carry on practicing their faith in capitalism, smallbusiness, economic activity, and the other primitive belief systems towhich they cling so touchingly.
4.In the Islamicworld, the infidel tax base eventually wised up. You can see itliterally in the landscape in rural parts of the Balkans: Christiantradesmen got fed up paying the jizya and movedout of the towns up into remote hills far from the shakedown crowd. Inless mountainous terrain where it’s harder to lie low, non-Muslimsfound it easier to convert. That’s partly what drove Islamic expansion.Once Araby was all Muslim, it was necessary to move on to the Levant,and to Persia, and to Central Asia and North Africa and India andEurope — in search of new infidels to mug. Don’t worry, I’m not soinvested in my analogy that I’m suggesting the Obama-Reid-Pelosishakedown racket will be forced to invade Canada and Scandinavia. For one thing, pretty much everywhere else got with theBig Government program well ahead of America and long ago figured outall the angles: Two-thirds of French imams are on the dole
5.In the Stockholmsuburb of Tensta,20 percent of women in their late 40s collectdisability benefits. In the United Kingdom, 5 million people — a tenthof the adult population — have not done a day’s work since the NewLabour government took office in 1997.
America has a ways to go in catching up with those enlightenedjurisdictions, but it’s on its way.Rep. Paul Ryan pointed out recentlythat, by 2004, 20 percent of U.S. households were getting about 75percent of their income from the federal government.As a matter of practical politics, how receptive would they be to apitch for lower taxes, which they don’t pay, or lower governmentspending, of which they are such fortunate beneficiaries? How receptivewould another fifth of households, who receive about 40 percent oftheir income from federal programs, be to such a pitch?
We are now not merely disincentivizing economic energy but activelywaging war on it. If 51 percent can vote themselves governmentlollipops from the other 49 percent, soon 60 percent will be shakingdown the remaining 40 percent, and then 70 percent will be sticking itto the remaining 30 percent. How low can it go? When you think aboutit, that 53 percent of American households props up not just thiscountry but half the planet: They effectively pick up the defense tabfor our wealthiest allies, so that Germany, Japan, and others canmaintain minimal militaries and lavish the savingson cradle-to-grave entitlements. A relatively tiny group of people iswriting the check for the entire global order. What proportion of themwould need to figure out that the game’s no longer worth it to bringthe whole system crashing down?
Just to re-emphasize:
53 percent of American households props up not just this country buthalf the planet: They effectively pick up the defense tab for ourwealthiest allies, so that Germany, Japan, and others can maintainminimal militaries and lavish the savings on cradle-to-graveentitlements.
A relatively tiny group of people is writing the check forthe entire global order.What proportion of them would need to figure out that the game’s no longer worth it to bring the whole system crashing down?
:-S :-|
By 2012, America could be holding the first federalelection in which a majority of the population will be able to votethemselves more government lollipops paid for by the ever shrinkingminority of the population still dumb enough to be net contributors tothe federal treasury.
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just because someone didn't have enough income to file a federal tax return, doesn' automatically make them eligible for "government lollipops"... and many of those who supposedly pay for these "lollipops" also happen to be direct (and indirect) beneficiaries of government assistance...
53 percent of American households props up not just this country buthalf the planet: They effectively pick up the defense tab for ourwealthiest allies, so that Germany, Japan, and others can maintainminimal militaries and lavish the savings on cradle-to-graveentitlements.
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I guess someone has been bouncing some checks (or maybe they're just late with their payments), because our debt is pushing $13 trillion *-)
LIFE AS A LEFTIST
1.After much consideration, I have decided to become a leftist. Here's why:
As a leftist, I have a right to a living wage. I was born with this right and under the system of social justice Obama and friends are implementing, rich fat cats are under an obligation to pay for my rights.
As a leftist, I also have a right to free health care, a roof over my head, and food on my table. And as long as I keep voting for Democrats, this right will be protected and, hopefully expanded.
As a solid member of the left, I have the right to abort my baby, and even have other people pay for it. I also have the right to free (taxpayer funded) birth control and my boyfriend has the right to obtain sexual enhancement aids for free. Not that he needs them, but, hey, they're free.
As a leftist, I have the right to indulge in sluttish behavior with whomever I want. Not only that, I can describe myself as 'empowered' instead of merely being a tramp.
2.Being a good leftist, I have the right not to be insulted. My behavior is sanctioned by my fellow leftists and it has been decided that anyone who insults me is, by nature, a bigot, and therefore of no consequence.
I also have the right to redefine words. And the right to ridicule anyone who objects. Especially if they're white Christian males.
Best of all, I am under no obligation to back up my feelings with facts. We on the left understand very well that any and all criticism coming from the right is motivated by hate and therefore invalid.
As a leftist, I don't have to worry about the consequences of my actions. It is understood that as long as my intentions are pure, the end results don't matter. I want it known that I fully intend to donate my lottery winnings to those poor Haitians, just as soon as I win them. Please pat me on the back. (Wait for the cameras, you idiot!)
3.Being a leftist entitles me to marry someone of the same-sex. And my children will have the right to choose their own gender. And schools, businesses and agencies that don't accommodate our choices could well be liable for prosecution under the hate crimes bill. How cool is that?
I am also free to choose my own God, or no God. This is a no brainer, as everyone knows that Mother Earth is the source of all spirituality. So as long as I don't litter and I recycle faithfully, I can legitimately claim piety. And as long as I publicly confess my trangressions, there is no need to atone. Whew.
I am now morally justified in walking away from my home mortgage. Those greedy lenders will be left holding the bag. Maybe that will teach them there's more to life than the bottom line.
4.And the car I got under 'cash for clunkers' won't be paid for either. Its not my fault I couldn't pay for it. But as soon as I get my discrimination lawsuit settlement from my former boss, I'll be able to get it back. Or maybe a new one.
As a leftist, I need focus only on my rights, and their infringement thereof. The government has decided to shoulder my former responsibilities. And about time!
5.Life as a leftist is good. Having my needs and problems taken care of by the government leaves me free to indulge my inner child. I no longer need to be ashamed of my failures, as I now know that the deck has been stacked against me all my life and those failures were not my fault! I am now liberated and empowered. As an added bonus, I am a member of four different victim groups, which allows me to maintain the high moral ground. This is called social justice.
I never knew life could be so good. All rights and no responsibilities! This could only happen in America. And as soon as the U.S. atones for past sins to my satisfaction, I'll be happy to admit that America is not a bad place to live.
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :'(
Смех сквозь слёзы.
А ведь и правда, большинство демократов именно так рассуждают. :-|
Khramaya
12.04.2010, 07:05
" большинство демократов именно так рассуждают"
caricatures of Democrats do.
Normal thinking people just slightly more complex then that:-) .
But only slightly:-) .
On the other hand, we see talking caricatures every day in the likes of Glen Beck and Sarah Palin.(md) (md) (md)
I really hope thinking conservatives are at least slightly more complex then those caricatures.
Светлана Гэмм
12.04.2010, 07:35
everytime a lot of (md) (md) (md) appear, I can feel a lot of "complex" thinking.. :-) and why does the left always have a need to pick on someone?? .. before it was GWB, now it's Palin and Beck.. Obama is pretty much a caricature, an ideologue.. there is no thinking in him.. just following the agenda-ideology..
if I am wrong, can anyone (and I am awaiting an answer to this question since the past elections) name ONE, just ONE, accomplishment of his (as a politician, as a lawyer or as a community organizer) besides getting an affirmation action education and getting elected?? eagerly awaiting for the "thinking" people's answer.. (ch)
besides getting an affirmation action education
______________________________________________
what the hell is that?
.
and getting elected??
-------------------------------------------------------------------
because becoming the first black president or president at all (without the help of daddy and baby brother), can hardly be considered an accomplishment.
oh, and speaking of Glenn Beck :-D
********northofwestminster.wordpress.com/2010/03/19/the-daily-show-comes-over-all-glenn-beck/
Khramaya
12.04.2010, 11:59
(md) (md) (md)
- are much better then all the words they deserve - those are pretty much unprintable(fr)
Светлана Гэмм
12.04.2010, 13:27
really? what exactly do they deserve, I wonder?? *-) I mean those people are out of power, just exercising the right of freedom of speech, compared to hundreds of corrupt politicians running the country right now who are real scumbags..:-S
speaking of intelligent conversation - I asked a question about our kids well being compared to the times when the government didn't have a "role" in ensuring every kid had opportunities.. no answer followed, and yet again the names of Palin and Beck were revoked.. I am starting to think they are super-intellectuals compared to the people playing them on TV pretending to be on forum.. *-)
speaking of intelligent conversation - I asked a question about our kids well being compared to the times when the government didn't have a "role" in ensuring every kid had opportunities.. no answer followed, and yet again the names of Palin and Beck were revoked
-----------------------------------------------------------------
first of all, Glenn Beck is a nut job. it has nothing to do with whether I agree with him or not, the man is just cuckoo for cocoa puffs. Palin is a little out there too... and is pretty much an air head...
second, the last question I recall you asking was about Obama's accomplishments. and as for our children's well being and government involvement, something about child labor laws comes to mind (just off the top of my head).
lastly, you have this really rude and quite frankly annoying tendency of calling people stupid and scoffing at their achievements. now I know we all make mistakes, and English is not ourfirst language... but, when you're minimizing someone's accomplishments and ridiculing the "comlex thinking" of those whose opinion differs from yours, it would really help if you yourselfavoided making countless mistakes in the process.
and here's a little something for you to ponder:
The propensity to predictably misjudge one's own intelligence was first noted by <FONT color=#ba0000>C. L. Downing
who conducted the first cross cultural studies on perceived intelligence. His studies also evidenced that the ability to accurately estimate others' intelligence was proportional to one's own intelligence. This means that the lower the IQ of an individual, the less capable they are of appreciating and accurately appraising others' intelligence. Therefore individuals with a lower IQ are more likely to rate themselves as more intelligent than those around them.
Obama is pretty much a caricature, an ideologue.. there is no thinking in him.. just following the agenda-ideology..
Very much so. Good point, Sveta(Y)
Особенно, когда он потрясает своим указательным пальцем с трибуны(H)
BTW, nobody still can find any records of what Obama did during his Harward Law Review time. Прошлое покрыто мраком у этого деятеля.
Светлана Гэмм
12.04.2010, 22:42
This means that the lower the IQ of an individual, the less capable they are of appreciating and accurately appraising others' intelligence. Therefore individuals with a lower IQ are more likely to rate themselves as more intelligent than those around them.
wow! I now know why the left has this tendency to accuse everyone on the right of being stupid.. I mean, afterall to be on the left is to subscribe and support policies that have failed everywhere else in the world.. you are either a blind ideologue or/and there is something wrong with your IQ..(ch)
I now know why the left has this tendency to accuse everyone on the right of being stupid
------------------------------------------------------------------
except that, unfortunately, the tendency is yours. *-)
wow! I now know why the left has this tendency to accuse everyone onthe right of being stupid.. I mean, afterall to be on the left is tosubscribe and support policies that have failed everywhere else in theworld.. you are either a blind ideologue or/and there is somethingwrong with your IQ..
Thank you, Sveta. You just nailed it.(ch)
Khramaya
13.04.2010, 03:31
"support policies that have failed everywhere else in the world"
I would like some REAL EVIDENCE of how, for example single payer healthcare systems failed in many European countries.
From what we know they are doing very well.
Светлана Гэмм
13.04.2010, 04:06
Julia, open the healthcare topic - it has tons of evidence - lower cancer cure rates, I mean much lower, longer waits for surgeries and specialists' care, rationing of care (certain treatments are not even available in some European countries and Canada), to name the few..
" January 8, 2008, Bethesda, MD—The United States places last among 19 countries when it comes to deaths that could have been prevented by access to timely and effective health care, according to new research supported by The Commonwealth Fund and published in the January/February issue of Health Affairs. While other nations dramatically improved these rates between 1997–98 and 2002–03, the U.S. improved only slightly."
***********.commonwealthfund.org/Content/News/News-Releases/2008/Jan/New-Study--U-S--Ranks-Last-Among-Other-Industrialized-Nations-on-Preventable-Deaths.aspx
When you call the French equivalent of 911, a doctor answers the phone, and if you truly have an emergency, they dispatch an entire medical team, including a doctor, to your house, apartment, hotel room, wherever you happen to be. They can diagnose you, begin treatment, decide which hospital is best for your particular problem, and have any needed specialists waiting for you at the hospital when the ambulance gets you there.
Oh, and it costs less than $200 [out of pocket] to have a baby. Two babies actually. Twins. By caesarian. With 9 days stay in the hospital afterwards.
***********.correntewire.com/france_you_dont_go_emergency_room_emergency_room_c omes_you
Светлана Гэмм
13.04.2010, 05:28
Julia, I am waiting for your comment for this posted non-sense about France's sytem of a doctor answering the phone and the cost of delivery being only 200 dollars.. how realistic is it in your view?? and how will the primary-care doctors manage to do it with the additional 15% work load.. btw, they all have "tort reform" and capped damages in Europe.. how can you expect to save money in this country when doctors are being scared of being sued and practice defensive medicine??
and btw, what do you think of the Europe's unemployment rate and compared to ours? any idea what contributes to such disparity?
my friend just had a baby, and it costs them $20 co-pay + $400 upgrade to a private suite in the hospital..
Светлана Гэмм
13.04.2010, 05:37
are you saying we have pretty good and affordable healthcare here too?? nooooooooo, it can't be....(ch)
my friend just had a baby, and it costs them $20 co-pay + $400 upgrade to a private suite in the hospital..
------------------------------------------------------------
how much without insurance?
how much does the insurance policy cost?
and what did it cost the insurance company?
My whopping $32 emergency room visit in the land of socialized medicine
***********.janisian.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8384
he does not know how much it costs to the insurance company...
he only knows how much it costs to him...
i had a minor shoulder surgery a month ago, and also paid a whopping $20.
oh, also i have a story - my sister in in Massachusetts ( and i will be moving there this summer as well )...
she got sick a few days ago and tried to get an appointment with an MD.
when she called a bunch an average wait time was in MONTHs..
Anyway, ended up going to some urgent care clinic where she could not even see an MD, a dumbass NP told her she had allergies..
Overall miserable experience..
Anyway, she was supposed to fly to CO, and did so anyway, with being sick and all.
There she was able to get an MD appointment the next day..
I hope we will not have to deal with MA style HC any time soon :(
he does not know how much it costs to the insurance company...
he only knows how much it costs to him...
-------------------------------------------------------------
how much he paid out of pocket is not the same as the cost. if he had to buy his own insurance policy, that too would be factored into the cost.
.
as for waiting to see a doctor, if you have a physician that you regularly go to, they usually see you right away. another reason why access to preventive care is so important.
France clearly is the new land of opportunity. :-)
Unemployment rate 20%, Sarkozi about to ban burkas. The percentage of muslim population is exploding. I wonder, how much longer will medical doctors be able to answer all the emergency phone calls ( what a waste of doctor's time, man(md) )?
Светлана Гэмм
13.04.2010, 07:53
Romney should publicly apologize for his "reform" in MA and use it as an example why it wouldn't work across the country.. his only defense that I agree with is that was done at the state level...
********healthcare-economist.com/2008/04/14/health-care-around-the-world-france/
this is a fairly balance article about the french healthcare system.. several of points..
1. insurance industries are loosely regulated, whereas ours will be even more regulated in the future..
2. doctors are still free to set up their fees..
3. France is running a huge deficit of the system..right now..
4. Everyone pays the same percentage (not even amount, which will not happen here)..
5. Everyone there has a supplemental coverage anyway - so the true cost is more than 13% of your income..
6. I still don't see why it has to run through the government as opposed to just private market
***********.oecd.org/dataoecd/61/52/43707170.pdf
this is the employment picture in France..
you pay taxes or you pay for insurance or your employer pays for your insurance.. it's all the same to me...
Светлана Гэмм
13.04.2010, 07:59
except is not exactly the same.. you definitely have more choices , more say, when it's not done through the government (taxes)... that's why I believe it will be repealed (58% support it now, up from 54%).. people can be mad all they want at the insurance companies, but majority still don't want the government to run it, don't want to feel like they are welfare recipients..
Svetlana, i mean the same as the money coming out of my pocket one way or another..
Wow, 13% is a lot of money. So, if a family makes $100,000 a year, they will pay for their "free" healthcare $13,000. Wonderful.(md) ( Я думаю, что этот символ в данном случае уместен:-D )
Светлана Гэмм
13.04.2010, 23:59
actually I am looking at other sources.. and many say it's around 20% of your income.. and covers around 70% of the cost.. plus the employer pays for it separately too..so, if overall they say healthcare in France costs less than in the US, they make way less money than people in US..
another thing I don't get - they say their doctors make around 40K euros.. I can't imagine doctors here making this little.. something is not right.. no one will spend this many years on their education and not be able to provide reasonable income for their families..
Doctors are paid little in Europe. Do the best and the the brightest go to medicine there? Does not make any sense to study for so many years , and then be paid like an office clerk with no education.
Or maybe office clerks get paid a lot less than 40K.
There was a theme in another group about wonderful life in Sweden -a guy posted an article about how great it is for women in Sweden because their husbands stay at home with kids while woman go to work(:-S ). But the missed point of the article was that the women there make so little money -$ 20K on average, and have to pay twice as much compared to here for basically anything at the stores.
Why work when I can get ?42,000 in benefits a year AND drive a Mercedes?
By Paul Sims
From UK
The Davey family's ?815-a-week state handouts pay for a four-bedroom home, top-of-the-range mod cons and two vehicles including a Mercedes people carrier.
Father-of-seven Peter gave up work because he could make more living on benefits.
Yet he and his wife Claire are still not happy with their lot.
With an eighth child on the way, they are demanding a bigger house, courtesy of the taxpayer.:-)
Read more:
***********.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1265508/Peter-Davey-gets-42-000-benefits-year-drives-Mercedes.html#ixzz0l2pSb5Ed
Натан Мэвэ
14.04.2010, 22:33
"The problem with Socialism is that at some point you run out of other people's money" -- Margaret Thatcher
Алексей Пэтк
15.04.2010, 00:21
The Davey family's ?815-a-week state handouts pay for a four-bedroom home, top-of-the-range mod cons and two vehicles including a Mercedes people carrier.
Hmm... with seven kids? Seriously? They must be feeding off the Sun light and go around naked -- which also should help with diapers... Was this article posted on April 1st?
Does not make any sense to study for so many years , and then be paid like an office clerk with no education.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
it boggles the mind how someone could be motivated by something other than monetary gain.
Светлана Гэмм
15.04.2010, 04:29
the median household income in UK is 39K pounds.. this guy gets 45K tax free!!.. I am sure his family also gets something equivalent of foodstamps here ...
there was a very nice country where doctors and janitors were making a similar amount of money.. too bad people don't get how wrong it is..
nobody is saying that doctors shouldn't be well compensated for their years of training... but the fees for their services shouldn't be so exorbitant as to preclude access to vital medical care.
.
and as for French doctors
"French doctors don't have to pay back their crushing student loans because medical school is paid for by the state, and malpractice insurance premiums are a tiny fraction of the $55,000 a year and up that many U.S. doctors pay. "
Additionally, "the French government pays two-thirds of the social security tax for most French physicians—a tax that's typically 40% of income."
Алексей Пэтк
15.04.2010, 06:15
Obama gains popularity (CNN poll): ********i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/04/13/rel7d.pdf
Светлана Гэмм
15.04.2010, 06:52
OMG, if this doesn't sound like the Soviet Union, I don't know what does..(sr) - you will receive free education provided by the "good, fair" government, and then we will determine what you can make in exchange of other favors.. this doesn't sound like a free country to me.. people who want to have a safety net and don't do much, go to Europe, people who want to succeed, work extra hard, come here.. I am sure Americansdoctors are much more productive than European, just like the rest of the American population.. no doctor in their right mind will put in so much extra-hours like they do in the US for this kind of "salary".. and we, the public, will suffer as a result..:-|
and we, the public, will suffer as a result..:-|
------------------------------------------------------------------
again, this is the result of our system versus "theirs":
" January 8, 2008, Bethesda, MD—The United States places last among 19 countries when it comes to deaths that could have been prevented by access to timely and effective health care, according to new research supported by The Commonwealth Fund and published in the January/February issue of Health Affairs. While other nations dramatically improved these rates between 1997–98 and 2002–03, the U.S. improved only slightly."
***********.commonwealthfund.org/Content/News/News-Releases/2008/Jan/New-Study--U-S--Ranks-Last-Among-Other-Industrialized-Nations-on-Preventable-Deaths.aspx
Светлана Гэмм
15.04.2010, 08:50
if we are 19 now (which I doubt), wait till we have bigger shortage of doctors and less productive doctors.. I can post tons of european links listing numerous problems in their systems.. especially now.. with the economy sinking.. and again, they all have fixed legal systems that save them money and changes practice of medicine..
Натан Мэвэ
15.04.2010, 09:50
TOMORROW, 7PM.
Tea Party in NYC!!! By main Post Office building on W31st st. and 8th Ave. I am going !!!
Liberal drones (and you know who you are) stay home and watch MSLSD.(md) (md) (md) (md)
Alexey, funny...
i just read 5 minutes before i saw your post
***********.gallup.com/poll/127316/Obama-Weekly-Approval-Lowest-Yet-One-Point.aspx
PRINCETON, NJ -- President Obama's job approval rating fell to 47% for the week ending April 11, the lowest of his administration so far by one percentage point.
Светлана Гэмм
15.04.2010, 10:40
there are polls that show 50% think Obama doesn't deserve second term.. I just don't want to jinx anything.. hope it stays this way till 2012.. :-)
Алексей Пэтк
15.04.2010, 10:59
Mike, it just says that polls have margin of error -- and how you _spin_ that is totally up to a "spinner" :-)
However, some conservative commentators (to be fair, I guess some liberal too) really need to get some education in statistical analysis. More money to colleges and universities! :-)
Fortunately, there is no need to spin.(ch) Obamka approval ratings keeps falling. It's been below 50% for a while. Poll after poll. Check it out for yourself.
I'm going to a Tea Party in San Francisco tomorrow. It's gonna be so much fun! We are going to wear flowers in our hair -to play on the 60s theme(F) (F) (F) :-D
Aleksey, i find Gallop tracking poll to be normally pretty reliable.. if you look at trends it does a good job indicating which way the wind is blowing..
CNN poll is point-in-time snapshot..
Светлана Гэмм
15.04.2010, 11:50
the best one is Rasmussen.. the most accurate.. they were the closest to the actual count the last two elections (2004 and 2008).. Gallup is often scewed toward democrats..
We are going to wear flowers in our hair -to play on the 60s theme
--------------------------------------------------------------
to play on the fact that you're the antithesis of everything that flower children stood for?
Алексей Пэтк
15.04.2010, 15:42
Obamka approval ratings keeps falling. It's been below 50% for a while. Poll after poll. Check it out for yourself.
C'mon Maria! This is just not serious. The original discussion started with me posting the link to the results of CNN poll (which I DID CHECK) which shows Obama's support above 50% in the month of March.
I don't care, frankly, what his ratings are, but you got to keep to the facts...
Алексей Пэтк
15.04.2010, 15:45
the best one is Rasmussen.. the most accurate..
Why is it most accurate? Most of them use the same methodology -- is it different (and the same statistical margin of error (4% or so they claim))? Does it use a larger sample? Or different questions? I'm just curious -- can you quantify it?
Obamka approval ratings keeps falling. It's been below 50% for a while. Poll after poll. Check it out for yourself.
Why is it not serious? Do I make up the poll numbers? There so many different legitimate polls posted online everyday - Gallup, Rassmusen, Fox, CNN, and many more. So, it's all out there, he has been at 46%, even 42% for his job performance. These are great numbers for the conservatives, give us HOPE. (H)
Светлана Гэмм
15.04.2010, 21:22
The complaint comes from the difference in results between Rasmussenand other national pollsters, such as Gallup. However, they use twodifferent sampling techniques: Rasmussen polls likely voters, while Gallup and others poll adultsuntil the final few weeks before an election. The former is much morepredictive for elections, while polling a general population of adultsis the least predictive sampling technique. And thatdifference gives Rasmussen an advantage that has already been seen thisyear. Rasmussen first detected the erosion of support for Obama andObamaCare in late June, an erosion that other pollsters corroborated inthe fall as discontent spread from the politically aware to the generalpopulation.
Светлана Гэмм
15.04.2010, 21:24
The Value of Party Weighting for a Tracking Poll
Rasmussen Reports does weight our sample to a set of partisan targetsand bases those targets on surveys conducted in preceding months.Entering the month of June, our targets for the month were set so thatthe sample would include 9.44% more Democrats than Republicans. At theend of the month, a review of the data showed that if we had not usedthe party weights, the Democrats would have had a 9.37% advantage overthe GOP. The bottom line is that—over the course of a full month—ourresults would have been the same with or without party weighting.
***********.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections2/election_20082/the_value_of_party_weighting_for_a_tracking_poll
Алексей Пэтк
19.04.2010, 15:44
Good representation of how much US spends on scientific research:
***********.phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=1305
National oceanic and atmospheric administration $4.1 bln : это что на изучение глобал ворминга?
Defense research and development -$11 blln,
Acorn -$6 bln.
Puts Obama priorities in perspective:-|
Алексей Пэтк
20.04.2010, 01:30
From National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration(NOAA)'s website: "From daily weather forecasts, severe storm warnings and climate monitoring to fisheries management, coastal restoration and supporting marine commerce, NOAA’s products and services support economic vitality and affect more than one-third of America’s gross domestic product. NOAA’s dedicated scientists use cutting-edge research and high-tech instrumentation to provide citizens, planners, emergency managers and other decision makers with reliable information they need when they need it."
What do you think about this article?
********city-journal.org/2010/20_2_california-unions.html
Steven Malanga
The Beholden State
How public-sector unions broke California
Man, they are powerful, and the sheeple who keep electing Democrats in California are enabling the endless cycle of corruption.
Алексей Пэтк
21.04.2010, 00:19
Well, NASA's plan is interesting.
What I like: privatization of low-orbit flights (now it's like if govt would have owned an airline), possibility of privatization of human orbital delivery, increasing NASA's science budget and budget for robotic exploration. The last two things are what NASA does very well -- and with very limited funds.
What I don't like: cancellation of the base on the Moon and continuing funding of that bucket in space called ISS.
What do you think about that?
Светлана Гэмм
21.04.2010, 00:48
According to NASA Administrator Charlie Bolden, President Obama has asked NASA to "find ways to reach out to dominantly Muslim countries," in a push to make the agency a tool of international diplomacy.
The Orlando Sentinel reports:“In addition to the nations that most of you usually hear about when you think about the International Space Station, we now have expanded our efforts to reach out to non-traditional partners,” said Bolden, speaking to a lecture hall of young engineering students.
Specifically, he talked about connecting with countries that do not have an established space program and helping them conduct science missions. He mentioned new opportunities with Indonesia, including an educational program that examines global climate change.
Светлана Гэмм
21.04.2010, 00:48
Canceling the Constellation program already threatens to put the U.S. behind countries like China and Russia. When did Kennedy's once undeterred vision of American space exploration transform into Obama's plan for an international science "welfare" program? When did NASA become a tool of diplomacy and an extended arm of the EPA?
Алексей Пэтк
21.04.2010, 01:12
Ok, rhetoric aside, it is not clear to me that Constellation program is (was) scientifically sound (the original idea of placing a capsule on the top of Shuttle's booster did not quite work out due to issues with vibrations). Base on the Moon was a part of the Constellation program. I liked the base on the Moon idea.
IMHO, cancellation of the Constellation program will not put us behind Russia and China, who still rely of the 60-s technology to put people in space. Outreach activity of NASA is small peanuts comparted to everything else, so it should not be a basis of the outrage over Obama or NASA.
ISS should have been dumped long time ago. There is no science (or anything else) there anymore.
Светлана Гэмм
21.04.2010, 01:38
it's not a rhetoric per say.. it's the "logic", if you will, behind his decision.. the outrage is legimate from my point view because Obama is not committed to the United States..
what's the "return" from the space program?
to me the whole thing looks like a giant black hole..
money goes in, nothing comes out..
Натан Мэвэ
21.04.2010, 04:05
"what's the "return" from the space program?
to me the whole thing looks like a giant black hole..
money goes in, nothing comes out..
Сегодня 19:51"
Mike, there has been a whole host of innovations over the last 25-30 years directly attributable to the space program, from satellite communications to new drugs developed and tested in the weightless environment. You can probably GOOGLE a lot of this stuff.
But I do agree that NASA over the years has done a lousy job advertising their achievements and how these translated into our everyday lives. They need to hire an advertising agency....
Алексей Пэтк
21.04.2010, 04:18
The main thing of space exploration (outside of missiles and satellite com or other military applications -- which was NOT done by NASA) was development of integrated circuits.
But as for "the rate of return" -- high energy physics probably did much more for less money invested -- accelerators and detectors for medical applications, superfast computing for pretty much everything and, of course, World Wide Web (browsers and such). And that's besides the main goal -- studies of particles and their interactions.
No one argues that space is "the final frontier". But many things there could now be done with robots and do not require expensive human participation.
What kind of medicine was developed in weightless environment (and requires that environment)?
uhm.. i don't know if diapers came out...
i have looked to see how much 'return' we are actually getting from the space program before and it was not much..
i wonder if there is a cost/benefit analysis of that whole thing.
it's a "cool" thing to do, the whole dream of walking on moon ( before ) and walking on Mars now..
however from a practical standpoint, I think we have better places to spend the money..
lets China do the heavy lifting for now..
Светлана Гэмм
21.04.2010, 04:43
why let China do it?? did they ever pioneer in anything?? they can still do it.. but if we stop, I think the whole process will stop..
Светлана Гэмм
21.04.2010, 04:48
ScienceDaily (Apr. 4, 2002) — A miniature pump designed to help your heart beat and a device that insures the safety of the International Space Station and its crew have received NASA's commercial and government invention of the year awards.
Receiving NASA's Commercial Invention of the Year is a miniature ventricular-assist device (VAD). Initially called the NASA/DeBakey heart pump, it is based in part on technology used in Space Shuttle fuel pumps. It is intended as a long-term "bridge" to a heart transplant, or as a more permanent device to help patients toward recovery and a more normal life.
the <FONT color=#002bb8>Four Great Inventions of ancient China
: <FONT color=#002bb8>papermaking, the <FONT color=#002bb8>compass, <FONT color=#002bb8>gunpowder, and <FONT color=#002bb8>printing
the Four Great Inventions of ancient China: papermaking, the compass, gunpowder, and printing
The Chinese invented technologies involving mechanics, hydraulics, and mathematics applied to horology, metallurgy, astronomy, agriculture, engineering, music theory, craftsmanship, nautics, and warfare. By the Warring States Period (403–221 BC), they had advanced metallurgic technology, including the blast furnace and cupola furnace, while the finery forge and puddling process were known by the Han Dynasty (202 BC–AD 220). A sophisticated economic system in China gave birth to inventions such as paper money during the Song Dynasty (960–1279). The invention of gunpowder by the 10th century led to an array of inventions such as the fire lance, land mine, naval mine, hand cannon, exploding cannonballs, multistage rocket, and rocket bombs with aerodynamic wings and explosive payloads.
Алексей Пэтк
21.04.2010, 05:00
lets China do the heavy lifting for now..
Why China? What's wrong with American private companies? They are already doing that -- Boeing, Orbital Sciences, etc.
Aleksey, they are doing is based on government grants, right?
I don't think there is "profit" to be had... is there?
I honestly don't know..
Олег Сах
21.04.2010, 05:10
Leadership in any new field will pay eventually, even through sheer projection of being first throughout the world. We can stop sending money abroad to backstabbers in form of Foreign Aid. Space Exploration in not a waste.
Svetlana, i am not saying they don't accomplish anything, i am just saying they are not carrying their own weight.
NASA budget is about 18billion/year
to compare Apple has about 1.3bil/year r&d costs...
Toyota about 5bln
Merck 2.5billion
GE 2.2billion..
Boeing 1.7
( these are the numbers as i remember, maybe off a bit )
Светлана Гэмм
21.04.2010, 05:23
I understand they are not "profitable" in the traditional way(ch) .. but do you think it can be done any other way?? no private entity will invest in this kind of research and development on their own, plus it's a national security issue..no?
i don't expect them to be fully profitable..
but 18bln/year can pay for a lot of food stamps, and god knows i need some :)
Светлана Гэмм
21.04.2010, 06:07
well, it's just another confirmation government doesn't run things the most efficient way.. but certain things it just HAS to do.. that's why "limited government" is the best approach..
Space exploration is exactly where the government involvement is needed. It's one area where I don't feel sorry for my tax dollars ( in addition to defense and border security).
OMG! Look up this chart- it lists the salaries and pensions for some of the bureaucrats in the Chicago public education department. No wonder, the states go bust(md)
( I wonder, what is it in California, perhaps even more outrageous?).
***********.championnews.net/article.php?sid=1023
Алексей Пэтк
22.04.2010, 00:03
Space Exploration in not a waste.
Aha -- coolness factor in action! No it is not. But human space flight (at this stage, before we develop new technology for a flight to Mars) is.
Алексей Пэтк
22.04.2010, 00:04
BTW, NASA has a fantastic PR department. Just recall all those cool pictures form Mars rovers and Hubble Space telescope.
Светлана Гэмм
22.04.2010, 03:34
it has nothing to do with the "coolness factor".. I am the last person to be bought into the coolness factor.. it's because this aspect of scientific discoveries doesn't belong to the free market, there is no end economical product or services.. healthcare and medicinal discoveries do belong to the free market and have the end product, on the other hand..
it's because this aspect of scientific discoveries doesn't belong tothe free market, there is no end economical product or services
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what happened to the "end economical product or services" - the "whole host of innovations over the last 25-30 years directlyattributable to the space program, from satellite communications to newdrugs developed and tested in the weightless environment.", ventricular-assist device, and diapers mentioned in the earlier posts? those no longer qualify ?
healthcare and medicinal discoveries do belong to the free market and have the end product, on the other hand..
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Just because an "end product or service" exists, doesn't mean that government intervention is automatically unwarranted. The problem with the free market is that it is often far from perfect. Frequently, certain products are available only to those who can afford them. When it comes to cervices such as healthcare and education, many in the civilized world consider this unacceptable. These individuals believe that unlike simple consumer goods such as a TV set or a designer bag, healthcare is an essential service (some would even argue, a fundamental human right) that should be available to all.
Светлана Гэмм
22.04.2010, 10:21
The European Union has declared travelling a human right, and is launching a scheme to subsidize vacations with taxpayers' dollars for those too poor to afford their own trips.
Antonio Tajani, the European Union commissioner for enterprise and industry, proposed a strategy that could cost European taxpayers hundreds of millions of euros a year, The Times of London reports.
"Travelling for tourism today is a right. The way we spend our holidays is a formidable indicator of our quality of life," Mr. Tajani told a group of ministers at The European Tourism Stakeholders Conference in Madrid on April 15. Mr. Tajani was appointed to his post by Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi.
fair comparison - going on a cruise is exactly the same as havingaccess to dialysis or getting life saving surgery. really, what was Ithinking.
in that case, I really can't understand why you so vehemently opposerationed health care - it's just like cutting your vacation short.
Want Decreased Health Care Costs and More Productive Employees? Send Them on Vacation.
more than half of Americans fail to use all of their allotted vacation days. Even more disturbing, the same study indicates that 42% of Americans in professional positions have had to cancel vacation plans due to work obligations.
Unfortunately in corporate America, time off is often associated with slacking, a lack of commitment and even the inability to fulfill job responsibilities.
Employers abroad seem to understand that taking a vacation can result in improved health, family life, productivity, creativity and personal well-being. Conversely, our international counterparts understand that too much time in the office results in less productive and less satisfied employees—negatively impacting business.
***********.insideindianabusiness.com/contributors.asp?id=1301
Это класс! *Отдых за счёт налогоплательщиков -неотьемлемое человеческое право. *Странно, что питание в ресторанах ещё не приравнено к неотьемлемым правам. *Я очень страдаю, когда мне приходится платить из своего кармана за ресторан. *Я считаю это вопиющим нарушением прав человека. *В справедливом мире, я должна иметь возможность зайти в любое французское бистро, и потребовать филейчики из дроздов с гранатовым сиропом и эклеры на десерт, и выйти оттуда с гордо поднятой головой, не заплатив ни копейки. *Счёт владелец ресторана пусть отправляет в министерсто пищевой промышленности. (pl) *Вот это жизнь! *Эх, вот за что надо бороться!
Светлана Гэмм
22.04.2010, 21:12
hoe about good quality shoes?? I think a pair of Jimmy Choo is a human right! Why should I wear shoes from Payless?? I deserve better!! We can do better! in the richest country of the World! :-)
Натан Мэвэ
22.04.2010, 22:55
Новое постановление избирательной коммиссии Нью-Йорка.
Для облегчения процесса выборов и с целью предотвращения длинных очередей на избирательных пунктах, предписано в этом году для республиканцев голосовать во вторник 2-го ноября, для демократов - голосовать в среду, 3-го ноября.
Соблюдайте правила голосования !!!
so the bottom line is: billion dollar flights to the moon - yes.
fancy cancer treatments - only for those who can afford them.
because once we start paying for those, we'll be just a hop, skip and a jump from subsidizing European vacations, dinners at fine restaurants, and manolo blahniks. *-)
Светлана Гэмм
23.04.2010, 00:56
“Sacrifice” does not mean the rejection of the worthless, but of the precious.“Sacrifice” does not mean the rejection of the evil for the sake of the good,but of the good for the sake of the evil. “Sacrifice” is the surrender of thatwhich you value in favor of that which you don’t.
If you exchange a penny for a dollar, it is not a sacrifice; if you exchangea dollar for a penny, it is. If you achieve the career you wanted, afteryears of struggle, it is not a sacrifice; if you then renounce it for thesake of a rival, it is. If you own a bottle of milk and give it to yourstarving child, it is not a sacrifice; if you give it to your neighbor’schild and let your own die, it is.
what if you share the milk with your neighbor's child, thus allowingthem both to live - in the process teaching your child a valuablelesson (one that has obviously been neglected). it doesn'thave to be either or - all or nothing.
Obamabots should just forget about fancy cancer treatments. There will be none of those when the rationing kicks in.
There will be a pain pill, though.
Алексей Пэтк
23.04.2010, 02:14
товарищи марксисты-ленинцы! а ну-ка быстро *по бревну и на субботник!
What does it have to do with what was discussed here so far?
Гера Така
24.04.2010, 01:12
Начальница, главариха, отаманша - ACORN
Заявила, да заявила в своём выступлении своей толпе -
I am proud to be a socialist!
Делайте выводы.
Возобновились полеты в Европе после пакостей вулкана в Исландии снепроизносимым названием *Эйяфьядлайёкюдль. * *Вообще, географическихгрубостей много. Среди них озеро Титикака и вулкан Попатекепетль. Новсех их забил вулкан в Перу с легким, ноантироссийским и хулиганскимназванием * Xуйнапутина (Huaynaputina). * Этот *вулкан знаменит своимкатастрофическим извержением 19 февраля 1600 года,которое считаетсясильнейшим извержением вулкана за всю историю Южной Америки.Теперьметеорологи и географы говорят, что это извержение былопричинойсерьезных климатических изменений, известных как «Малыйледниковый период».
1601 год был самым холодным за шестьсот лет. Из-за вулканической пылиСолнцехуже прогревало Землю, понизилась температура, в августе 1601года шел снег в *Москве и замерзали реки, что вызвало страшный неурожайи великий голод в России1601-1603 годов, следствием которого сталоСмутное время и многие дальнейшиеглубокие перемены в нашей истории.
Получается,что новый праздник, который правительство Путина установило всем *нам 4ноября, отмечает не столько избавление Москвы от поляков (но больше-казаков) в 1612 году, сколько избавление от исторических последствийизвержения *вулкана Xуйнапутина.
Долой хулиганов с карты мира!(H)
So, what are the thoughts about the Arizona illegal immigration law?
I was watching ( a rare moment in my life) some TV today -Al Sharpton was debating Ramesh Ponnuru on this law - Al Sharpton can't control himself, he needs a rabies shot. There is no reason with this guy.
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